New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
User avatar
badscooter
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:07 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by badscooter » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:13 pm

twelph wrote:
Billymac29 wrote:
This is why we always have to be open to whatever comes up in the course of the meditation - whatever insights, whatever realizations, whatever issues arise - because a lot of times the things that come up are more valuable than what you thought you were looking for.
You focus on the basic technique of keeping with the breath, and eventually you stumble over some really important veins in the mind. They may be veins of gold, veins of diamond, or an old layer of garbage that got laid down sometime in the past. But the basic technique is just being here, being observant, watching what happens,...
Even those two passages taken out of context are still completely in line with what he is trying to convey in the book. Both passages acknowledge that there are useful thoughts or "garbage" that might come up during meditation. The goal of the meditator is to use discernment when watching these thoughts arise. Not to let them pass by without acknowledging them.
I disagree.... in these passages there is no use of discernment... Neither passage says to make any discernment, just to watch and notice... He gives some examples on what might arise during meditation... and then says to just watch (no discernment) .. this is the same principle he ridicules in the "whatever comes up" approach.

the quote above literally says:
But the basic technique is just being here, being observant, watching what happens
How can that be in line with what he says in the book?

may all be well
:)
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:40 pm

polarbuddha101 wrote: . . .
Thanks for the suggestion, but I see no point in doing so.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2464
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by manas » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:19 am

I feel saddened when I see such division here, caused by slightly differing views as to the interpretation of the Dhamma. We can all agree on the four Noble Truths, but when it comes to the Path, particularly with regard to the last two angas (samma-sati, and samma-samadhi) why do we bicker so much? :weep:



:anjali:
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by daverupa » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:28 am

manas wrote:with regard to the last two angas (samma-sati, and samma-samadhi) why do we bicker so much?
This is a good question.

Probably, (Western) Buddhist people sink a lot of their hope for the future in sammasatisamadhi, and to feel that one's samma is maybe a little miccha can be frightening and worrisome.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20040
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:54 am

:goodpost:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

alan
Posts: 3087
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:14 am
Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by alan » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:44 am

Keep in mind that there is no Buddhist Theology, and never is it suggested that you must believe a certain way.
The Buddha taught to his listeners, and gave them appropriate responses. I think Thanissaro is dong his best to get through to the people he is teaching. That's his job, right?

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by danieLion » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:46 am

Billymac29, Twelph,

Reverend Thanissaro is contradicting himself, but I don't mind. He's human; he changes his mind; he gets confused at times.

Plus, his beef with "the meditation is about whatever comes up" is not with the "whatever comes up" part; it's with "the meditation is about" part.

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by danieLion » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:56 am

daverupa wrote:
manas wrote:with regard to the last two angas (samma-sati, and samma-samadhi) why do we bicker so much?
This is a good question.

Probably, (Western) Buddhist people sink a lot of their hope for the future in sammasatisamadhi, and to feel that one's samma is maybe a little miccha can be frightening and worrisome.
It can also be stimulating and inspiring. The first time I heard a Rev T. talk I thought, "What a f*cking asshole!" I'm not embellishing. About three months later, I'm mucking around in thte "mindfulness practice" methods, feeling stale and full of doubt. I recollected my strong aversion to the Rev. T. and thought, "maybe he's just the slap in the face I need."

He was.

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by danieLion » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:01 am

alan wrote:Keep in mind that there is no Buddhist Theology, and never is it suggested that you must believe a certain way.
The Buddha taught to his listeners, and gave them appropriate responses. I think Thanissaro is dong his best to get through to the people he is teaching. That's his job, right?
Yes, especially as a teacher of teachers. Andrea Fella, e.g., teaches "mindfulness practice" (Mahasi style) but still calls Rev. T one of her teachers. I seriously doubt she's not aware of his critiques in RM.

twelph
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:03 pm

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by twelph » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:41 pm

danieLion wrote:
alan wrote:Keep in mind that there is no Buddhist Theology, and never is it suggested that you must believe a certain way.
The Buddha taught to his listeners, and gave them appropriate responses. I think Thanissaro is dong his best to get through to the people he is teaching. That's his job, right?
Yes, especially as a teacher of teachers. Andrea Fella, e.g., teaches "mindfulness practice" (Mahasi style) but still calls Rev. T one of her teachers. I seriously doubt she's not aware of his critiques in RM.
Having been to one of her retreats, she mainly teaches using the style of Sayadaw U Tejaniya lately.

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by danieLion » Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:01 am

twelph wrote:
danieLion wrote:
alan wrote:Keep in mind that there is no Buddhist Theology, and never is it suggested that you must believe a certain way.
The Buddha taught to his listeners, and gave them appropriate responses. I think Thanissaro is dong his best to get through to the people he is teaching. That's his job, right?
Yes, especially as a teacher of teachers. Andrea Fella, e.g., teaches "mindfulness practice" (Mahasi style) but still calls Rev. T one of her teachers. I seriously doubt she's not aware of his critiques in RM.
Having been to one of her retreats, she mainly teaches using the style of Sayadaw U Tejaniya lately.
No she doesn't. She consistently teaches, as she says over and over, a combination of methods from all her teachers. Plus, Reverend Tejaniya is likely very influenced by Mahasi.

twelph
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:03 pm

Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by twelph » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:15 pm

danieLion wrote:No she doesn't. She consistently teaches, as she says over and over, a combination of methods from all her teachers. Plus, Reverend Tejaniya is likely very influenced by Mahasi.
She just consistently does retreats in the style of Saydaw U Tejaniya.
http://audiodharma.org/series/2/talk/1925/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://audiodharma.org/series/2/talk/1809/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dharmaseed.org/retreats/1095/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://ssivipassana.org/?p=2093" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://audiodharma.org/series/2/talk/3111/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://audiodharma.org/series/2/talk/3142/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Though while doing retreats with Gil and when she took over Introduction to Meditation she switches back to the Mahasi-like method.

Out of curiosity, what similarities do you see with Mahasi Sayadaw and Sayadaw U Tejaniya? I know that they both are grounded in the Abhidharma, but that seems to be where the similarities end. U Tejaniya seems to believe that if you are noting things constantly then your awareness is not relaxed.

Now I must scold myself :offtopic:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests