Good.
Excellent.
Superior.
Authentic.
Blissful.
Enlightened.
Compassionate.
Clear-eyed.
Profound.
Wise.
True....
When it comes to such things, let others do the talking.
You and I have work to do.
Claptrap never got the job done.
Just noodling.
claptrap
Re: claptrap
So the Dhammapada is claptrap? It's filled with many of those words. Some of those words have whole chapters devoted to them.
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Re: claptrap
[Deleted by poster]
Last edited by pererin on Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Cittasanto
- Posts: 6646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
- Location: Ellan Vannin
- Contact:
Re: claptrap
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: claptrap
As soon as you or I get to work, they become true words and thus, strangely, perfectly useless.Peter wrote:So the Dhammapada is claptrap? It's filled with many of those words. Some of those words have whole chapters devoted to them.
Re: claptrap
Adding to the list:genkaku wrote:Good.
Excellent.
Superior.
Authentic.
Blissful.
Enlightened.
Compassionate.
Clear-eyed.
Profound.
Wise.
True....
Bad.
Piss-poor.
Inferior.
Fake.
Frantic.
Deluded.
Cruel.
Prejudiced.
Superficial.
Ignorant.
False....
Crap, I have a lot of work to do.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
- Placid-pool
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:09 am
Re: claptrap
All adjectives are subject to perception.
Re: claptrap
Do you mean the bad adjectives or the good ones too. :pPlacid-pool wrote:All adjectives are subject to perception.
- Placid-pool
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:09 am
Re: claptrap
No - all of them - one person's brilliant is another person's useless. It depends on your starting point and perspective.genkaku wrote:Do you mean the bad adjectives or the good ones too. :pPlacid-pool wrote:All adjectives are subject to perception.
Re: claptrap
Are they useless before you get to work?genkaku wrote:As soon as you or I get to work, they become true words and thus, strangely, perfectly useless.Peter wrote:So the Dhammapada is claptrap? It's filled with many of those words. Some of those words have whole chapters devoted to them.
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Re: claptrap
Dear Peter -- Words are tentatively useful in that they can inspire action. But some emphasis has to be placed on the word "tentative" since plenty of people would rather hoard the words than get to work.
Maybe it's a bit like the old Buddhist metaphor of the fellow who has been shot by the arrow and lies dying on the ground asking who shot the arrow, what kind of wood the arrow is made out of, what bird provided the feathers and so forth... when the important part would be to get the arrow out.
Those with a meditation practice, practice it and in so doing, withdraw the arrow bit by bit. Those without a meditation practice are wise to find one and then practice it. In this way, experience brings to life what currently is merely inspirational words on a page. Don't worry -- you can trust the words you love; they won't steer you wrong. But it's not enough to imagine you've got it right when you've got the words... that would just be an invitation to additional blood-stained arrows and a more ornate expression of uncertainty, don't you think?
Maybe it's a bit like the old Buddhist metaphor of the fellow who has been shot by the arrow and lies dying on the ground asking who shot the arrow, what kind of wood the arrow is made out of, what bird provided the feathers and so forth... when the important part would be to get the arrow out.
Those with a meditation practice, practice it and in so doing, withdraw the arrow bit by bit. Those without a meditation practice are wise to find one and then practice it. In this way, experience brings to life what currently is merely inspirational words on a page. Don't worry -- you can trust the words you love; they won't steer you wrong. But it's not enough to imagine you've got it right when you've got the words... that would just be an invitation to additional blood-stained arrows and a more ornate expression of uncertainty, don't you think?
Last edited by genkaku on Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: claptrap
hi Peter all
there is a Buddhist story, zen I think about not focusing too much on the tip of the finger when it is pointing to the moon, quite a famous story I have heard it used by each tradition but I would add don't focus on the moon to much either as the finger may not be pointing at it!
there is a Buddhist story, zen I think about not focusing too much on the tip of the finger when it is pointing to the moon, quite a famous story I have heard it used by each tradition but I would add don't focus on the moon to much either as the finger may not be pointing at it!
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: claptrap
I think disparaging words without any qualification, as you've done in your first post, may turn someone away from learning the Buddha's teaching. Then a great disservice has been done.genkaku wrote:don't you think?
No moon, no finger, no practice, just more suffering.
- Peter
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.
Re: claptrap
What's wrong with encouragement?genkaku wrote:Claptrap never got the job done.
Just noodling.
One can be would up in "claptrap", as easily as one can be would up in avoiding it, for example, aversion to certain words, don't you think?
Re: claptrap
Dear Peter -- Disparaging words, like words of wondrous praise, excite attention. But whether disparaging or wondrous, it is the attention that counts, not the words. Making a full-time practice of praise or blame would be equally off the mark ... it would just betoken another hiding place for the spiritually uncertain. Sometimes there are soothing words, sometimes there are irritating words ... but without suffering, where would so-called enlightenment be? without suffering, how could an end to suffering have any useful meaning?Peter wrote:I think disparaging words without any qualification, as you've done in your first post, may turn someone away from learning the Buddha's teaching. Then a great disservice has been done.genkaku wrote:don't you think?
No moon, no finger, no practice, just more suffering.
Kindness is good. But to take some imagined goodness as a refuge is a recipe for more suffering, I'd say.
Of course, I've been wrong before.
Best wishes.