help me understand how consciousness is not self

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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Re: help me understand how consciousness is not self

Post by Cittasanto » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:09 pm

alan... wrote:
Cittasanto wrote: I had missed the "not" underlined so... but I find your achnoledgement of this typo funny as my user name used to be Manapa.
do you use a spell checker? I use one as my spelling can be quite bad. you can download them for browsers.

but think of it as the Karaniya metta sutta says of the practice of metta "Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down, so long as one is free from drowsiness, this should be recollected"
i use spell check but with all the pali words tons of stuff is underlined so i sometimes accidentally ignore stuff as i'm used to ignoring all the pali words with red lines underneath.

what about your previous user name?
I used to go by Manapa, so when you said man, I found it funny
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
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He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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Re: help me understand how consciousness is not self

Post by manas » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:09 pm

Hi alan, I can't easily quote with this I read that you (believe that) you can have visual impressions, sounds, thought-impressions, all at once. I think you should investigate this more thoroughly. Because as I understand it, that's how things can appear, but not how they really are. You can't actually see and hear at the same instant. What happens is that the mind moves so quickly from one thing to another, such that, as in a movie, the many frames are perceived as one, continuous experience.

But don't think you are alone, I'm similarly engaged in trying to see through this identification with conscious awareness as 'the one who knows' -with the underlying assumption of this being our 'authentic, real self' there, u know what I mean? But maybe instead of construing 'knower', we should just cultivate 'knowing'...

This work might require patient, consistent application of the entire eightfold path for some time.

Keep treading...
"With regard to internal factors, I don't envision any other single factor like appropriate attention as doing so much for a monk in training, who has not attained the goal but remains intent on the unsurpassed safety from bondage. A monk who attends appropriately abandons what is unskillful and develops what is skillful."
- from the Itivuttaka

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Re: help me understand how consciousness is not self

Post by SarathW » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:02 pm

Hi Alan
This is my approach:
A)Consciousness is not a one fixed entity, stored in anywhere. It arises due to reasons.
B)Consciousness will not arise without grassier matter (Rupa) or subtle matter (Nama)
c)When Citta (consciousness) arise with it other 52 Cetasikas arise.
d)when conditions not there there is no consciousness.
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Re: help me understand how consciousness is not self

Post by alan... » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:15 am

thanks all. i sat in jhana for a bit and then after coming out i contemplated this and broke through fairly well. this has happened before and i backslid so let's hope i can maintain this time!

largely the backsliding was due to too much focus on meditation and mindfulness without enough observation of the anicca, dukkha and anatta of mind itself.

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