Too many male mods here and no woman section

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Kim OHara
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:31 am

pilgrim wrote:How about one for Asian Buddhists? and one for Youths? Unless it serves a clearly identifiable purpose, I don't see good reason to divide and subdivide ourselves.
I agree.
I will go a step further: if something can't be said to everyone, it is possibly (probably?) not Right Speech.
pilgrim wrote:When posting here, I don't even notice the gender behind the monikers used.

Notice? A lot of the time you can't even know unless the member has mentioned it.
Just quickly - no checking or anything - can you tell me the gender of skydancer, catmoon, Ayu, songhill, Astus, Chris, seekeroftruth, termite, jrh001, pink_trike, fig tree? They are all good DW usernames. :thinking:
My own username is gender-ambiguous and some of you may remember that I posted regularly to e-Sangha for a year before anyone knew my gender. I suggest that means it can't be terribly important.

Finally, even when the member gives the information, you (sadly) can't be sure they are telling the truth - and a rule or policy that can't be monitored or policed is a waste of time and energy, IMHO.

:namaste:
Kim

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Mr Man
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by Mr Man » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:57 am

My hope would be that women didn't feel a need for a "women's section" but if they do so be it.

As a separate idea how about a "memorial section" with guidlines?

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Dan74
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by Dan74 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:00 am

retrofuturist wrote::goodpost:

There's certain topics I won't touch with a bargepole. You know the kind I mean - the ones that no matter what you say, someone is going to project their dissatisfaction with the world onto you.

One bitten, twice shy.

Metta,
Retro. :)
:goodpost:

That said, there are a lot of things wrong with the world and the way women are treated is a tragedy for all, I think. Sadly topics related to this quickly degenerate into gender wars and ad homs and many of us stay away from them not because we do not support movements for equality and to protect women from violence but because we don't want to get caught in the cross-fire (or cross-hairs for that matter).

I hope DW continues to foster a space where women feel both safe and respected and if any of us (male or female) sometimes say things that are insensitive or can be taken that way, I hope we can point that out respectfully to each other and deal with it like sisters and brothers in the Dhamma, avoiding the rancour and ill-will and recalling metta and compassion for all suffering.
_/|\_

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Mr Man
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by Mr Man » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:03 am

Dan74 wrote:
retrofuturist wrote::goodpost:

There's certain topics I won't touch with a bargepole. You know the kind I mean - the ones that no matter what you say, someone is going to project their dissatisfaction with the world onto you.

One bitten, twice shy.

Metta,
Retro. :)
:goodpost:

That said, there are a lot of things wrong with the world and the way women are treated is a tragedy for all, I think. Sadly topics related to this quickly degenerate into gender wars and ad homs and many of us stay away from them not because we do not support movements for equality and to protect women from violence but because we don't want to get caught in the cross-fire (or cross-hairs for that matter).

I hope DW continues to foster a space where women feel both safe and respected and if any of us (male or female) sometimes say things that are insensitive or can be taken that way, I hope we can point that out respectfully to each other and deal with it like sisters and brothers in the Dhamma, avoiding the rancour and ill-will and recalling metta and compassion for all suffering.
I agree :anjali:

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Ben
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by Ben » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:34 am

Mr Man wrote:My hope would be that women didn't feel a need for a "women's section" but if they do so be it.
Mr Man, only one person since our inception has ever requested a women's only section.
Mr Man wrote:As a separate idea how about a "memorial section" with guidlines?
The shrine room can perform that function.
thanks for your suggestion.

Ben
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SarathW
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by SarathW » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:49 am

As Buddhist we all understand the meaning of the fetter “Mana”. Thought that someone is higher , lower, or equal is due to not understanding Anatta. We all are different aggregates. So we can’t compare each other. Even two atoms are not identical. As far as we understand that we all are different, there is no problem. We should not promote any suggestions to separate, based on creed, color, sex, ethnic back ground religion or any of those discriminations.Buddha Dhamma has only one taste - the taste of freedom. Thats all we talk, nothing else.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Cittasanto
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by Cittasanto » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:22 pm

Hi Kim
:anjali:
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

danieLion
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by danieLion » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:59 pm

There's not a men's section either. Since when does Dhammawheel care about the ideals of representative democracy?

Next thing you know, soemone will claim we need an affirmative action policy.

Justsit
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by Justsit » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:58 am

Just curious - what percentage of members here are men? Anyone know?

plwk
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by plwk » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:46 am

Just curious - what percentage of members here are men? Anyone know?
Starts looking beneath the kilts and tables....

Justsit
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by Justsit » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:13 am

:rofl:

Perhaps I should rephrase that...or maybe not...

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beeblebrox
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by beeblebrox » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:06 pm

SarathW wrote:As Buddhist we all understand the meaning of the fetter “Mana”. Thought that someone is higher , lower, or equal is due to not understanding Anatta. We all are different aggregates. So we can’t compare each other. Even two atoms are not identical. As far as we understand that we all are different, there is no problem. We should not promote any suggestions to separate, based on creed, color, sex, ethnic back ground religion or any of those discriminations.Buddha Dhamma has only one taste - the taste of freedom. Thats all we talk, nothing else.
Hi SarathW,

I don't understand your logic here... besides, I think that it's irrelevant to what Annapurna tried to suggest. (Whether it was a good suggestion, or not.)

I think it's obvious some people have some needs (or challenges) in their practices which are different to others... I can understand how they might feel it could be helpful for them to have a group where they can share their practices together, without having to deal with what they feel might be unnecessary obstructions from others, who might not understand these issues. I don't think it necessarily have anything to do with superiority, inferiority or equality... there's really no need for us to feel self-defensive about it, especially if there was nothing malignant about it.

I notice that some people would say something like, "Hey, this Buddha Dhamma have only one taste and I think that's really all that we should care about, nothing else..." whenever some people tried to create a support group of their own. (I read something similar in an article about a sangha which was all-black, and a white guy, a so-called "Buddhist leader" in the area, said it.)

I think that was quite unfortunate, and inappropriate. I sympathize a lot with women and other minority groups who practice... I'm deaf, and I'm literally the only one at the sanghas. It isn't easy for me. I sometimes feel like I'm Bodhidharma travelling to China, and there's no common language... I'm not even enlightened. I feel like I'm sitting at the wall for 9 years, waiting for the people around me to share their buddha-nature with me. (I practice with Mahayana people, so I think this is quite appropriate.)

I would like this practice to be opened up to deaf people (more than what it is now), eventually... but I definitely don't expect them to just walk in and practice with hearing people the way that I do. (The only reason why I do this is because I'm crazy.) I think that it would be extremely unrealistic to expect from an average person. While it's not that difficult to just drop in for a sitting, it would be hard if they tried to sustain that, especially on their own, for any meaningful length of time.

The way that I see it, if some people feel that having their own group would help them in their practices, or help them to have more fruitful discussions about it... I think that's great. I'm not going to be dismissive of them for that, or say some condescending things about it. If the statement about the "Buddha Dhamma having one taste" is true, then over the time their practices will converge with others, anyway. I think there should be no worries.

The problem you seem to have I think comes from trying to impose your understanding of what the Dhammic practice should entail, instead of doing it for yourself. So, I think you basically ended up being the one who actually had the ideas of superiority, inferiority and equality, by reading them into another's post... hope you see what I mean.

With these kind of posts, like Annapurna's, whether they're good suggestions or not, whether she handled herself skillfully in these situations or not, I always see this as an opportunity to practice metta, karuna, sympathetic joy, and upekkha. I think that this might be the only way to have a dialogue which is fruitful, for everyone. It benefits not only for us, but others too.

I think that it's in this sense that the Buddha Dhamma have one taste.

:anjali:

SarathW
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by SarathW » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:32 am

Hi Beeblbrox
Thanks for correcting me. I see your point. I did not mean to object to any persons point of view. I am not an enlightened one either! Please consider the followings.

- I am more closed to women than men (sorry guys) I feel more comfortable and protected with them.
The reason been, I was brought up by 12 women (my aunts) and six sisters.
I was very closed to my mother, more than my father. So I always protect women.
- I am frustrated with the way society is disintegrating with deferent groups. Most importantly, it will hinder the attainment of Arahantship for a Buddhist.
So we should try to minimise the segregation. Western countries (developed) have less discrimination than third world countries.
That alone is a good example of how you can reap the benefits of your good action in this life it self.
- Please consider the administration difficulties. (Dhamma wheel is a non profit organisation) so they have to keep it simple.
- I agree with you and your point taken.
- Please strive, you can attain Arahantship in this life.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

alan...
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by alan... » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:11 am

SDC wrote:We shouldn't make any changes that perpetuate our differences.

Our differences don't mean anything, and shouldn't mean anything.

Let's all agree on this - certain topics are touchy. No matter how clever you think you're being, no matter how righteous your intention, it is likely your words may not be accepted by all involved. Be ready for the consequences or, dare I say, DON'T POST.

:goodpost:

there is no self, separating people based on gender is giving into the illusion that there is a self that needs to be separated.

alan...
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Re: Too many male mods here and no woman section

Post by alan... » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:14 am

Aloka wrote:
Annapurna wrote:

How about having more female mods here?

Right now, women are underrepresented...

And how about getting a protected area for women here, like in E Sangha, however small, an area where female members cnas share some women issues in an atmosphere that we decide, perhaps we self-moderate sisterly, an area where men and male mods are heartily invited guests, to read and participate, but not welcome to domineer any discussions, as it is can happen now?

Sensitive topics would certainly benefit.

As a woman myself I'm wondering why women would need a "protected area" ? If women have to have a special area why not have similar areas for lesbian, gay and transgendered members as well ----and also for teenagers and....perhaps for vegetarians?

I think women can be just as domineering in discussions as men if they want to be - and personally its no problem for me to interact with others on a forum whatever their sexuality happens to be.

Just a personal opinion though.

with metta

Aloka :)

:goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:

separating men and women is an absurdly outdated method. the only way this would be appropriate is if this forum were about physical health or something as men and women are different physically but we all practice the same dhamma to get over the exact same delusion. illusion of self has no gender. men and women are totally equal and separating them is really strange. i have enjoyed a lot of your posts specifically and having not been able to hear them because you were separated in some "women only" section would be terrible!

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