Vipassana during Jhana?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
danieLion
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Re: Vipassana during Jhana?

Post by danieLion »

Don't suttas like Anguttara Nikaya 4.124 and 9.36 record examples of vipassana during jhana?
Sylvester
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Re: Vipassana during Jhana?

Post by Sylvester »

That does not seem to be the function of present tense verbs in Pali.
daverupa
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Re: Vipassana during Jhana?

Post by daverupa »

Sylvester wrote:That does not seem to be the function of present tense verbs in Pali.
Let's have the details, via Warder:
The present tense is used to express [1] present time, the limits of which are somewhat vague, or [2] indefinite time (timeless statements such as "eternal truths"), [3] sometimes the immediate future (which may include a shade of "imperative" sense; cf. English "I'm going") and [4] sometimes the past ("historic present"). It is used to express [5] the duration of an action "until", [6] a fixed future time (a vivid future visualized as present) "when", and [7] in certain other constructions.
The examples of those two suttas strike me as instances of [6].

(I wonder: isn't somanassa present during some jhana at least? And isn't cetana inherent in somanassa? So cetana would be present in maybe the first two or three jhana, but maybe I'm not thinking clearly, as I'm with a head cold.)
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
santa100
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Re: Vipassana during Jhana?

Post by santa100 »

danielLion wrote:
Don't suttas like Anguttara Nikaya 4.124 and 9.36 record examples of vipassana during jhana?
Ven. Thanissaro said it could be either during or after in his summary of MN 111 ( http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... n.111.than" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ):
A description of how insight can be developed either while in, or immediately after withdrawing from, the different levels of jhana.
The reason that the 4th immaterial attainment's insight (base of neither perception nor non-perception) can only be done afterward was explained in Ven. Bodhi's note:
[1051]This indirect introspective method must be used to contemplate the fourth immaterial attainment because this attainment, being extremely subtle, does not enter into the direct range of investigation for disciples. Only fully enlightened Buddhas are able to contemplate it directly.
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