cultivating wisdom?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
vinasp
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Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by vinasp » Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:00 am

Hi alan...

Is wisdom itself actually cultivated?

Perhaps wisdom is the right way of knowing, it is what is left when all the wrong ways
of knowing have been eliminated.

First stage: eliminate views.
Second stage: eliminate wrong ways of 'regarding' things.
Third stage: eliminate knowing in terms of 'I am'.

Of course, one has to see why the wrong ways of knowing are wrong.

Regards, Vincent.

alan...
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Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by alan... » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:27 am

manas wrote:Alan, I'm glad you find samadhi "fairly straightforward" cos personally I've had a very long and hard struggle with it, which is ongoing.

As for wisdom, just to keep exerting ourselves in the practice requires a degree of wisdom, imo. Otherwise why wake up early every day to sit, abstain from various things, etc? Why not just take it easy and enjoy the ordinary pleasures of life?
well it is a struggle, but at least you know what you're trying to do! you sit down, focus on your breath, etc. you're on a road with an idea of a destination. my problem is that with wisdom i have no idea what i'm doing some of the time. i feel like it should be easier to see direction in cultivation and all that.

i like that you say simply practice is wise. i read a quote i love one time: "practice is perfect" beautiful.

alan...
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Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by alan... » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:34 am

vinasp wrote:Hi alan...

Is wisdom itself actually cultivated?

Perhaps wisdom is the right way of knowing, it is what is left when all the wrong ways
of knowing have been eliminated.

First stage: eliminate views.
Second stage: eliminate wrong ways of 'regarding' things.
Third stage: eliminate knowing in terms of 'I am'.

Of course, one has to see why the wrong ways of knowing are wrong.

Regards, Vincent.

well here's my thoughts: the eighfold path is divided up into wisdom, morality and concentration. concentration includes mindfulness, effort and concentration, so all the people saying mindfulness is how you get wisdom is confusing me. then morality is right view, speech, and livelihood. then wisdom is right view and right thought. both of those things can be volitional activities, correcting ones views can be a thing you can think about and accomplish, and even right view is something you can attempt to cultivate. as opposed to simply being mindful and waiting for wisdom while behaving morally.

see what i'm saying?

obviously they all come together, but while they're separate, why can't we explain wisdom as easily as concentration and morality. morality is the easiest and then concentration is at least a progressive thing: sit down, pick a meditation object, meditate in this way, eventually you can go through these states of mind, and so on. there is nothing like this for wisdom as far as i can tell. does anyone know otherwise?

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DNS
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Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by DNS » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:49 am

Study some of the more technical aspects of the Dhamma, such as Paṭiccasamuppāda. Read the Suttas or if you already have, study them some more, especially some of the more technical parts.

You are asking lots of good questions. I admire your adhitthana (determination; a paramita).

alan...
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Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by alan... » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:51 am

David N. Snyder wrote:Study some of the more technical aspects of the Dhamma, such as Paṭiccasamuppāda. Read the Suttas or if you already have, study them some more, especially some of the more technical parts.

You are asking lots of good questions. I admire your adhitthana (determination; a paramita).
Thanks! And thanks for the advice!

vinasp
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Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by vinasp » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:29 am

Hi alan...

Yes, but there is also another way of understanding the path.

Right thought, speech, conduct, livelihood, effort, mindfulness and concentration are
the RESULT of right view. All the other path factors are the automatic consequences of
right view, which only noble disciples have. [see SN 45.1]

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards, Vincent.

alan...
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Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by alan... » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:46 am

vinasp wrote:Hi alan...

Yes, but there is also another way of understanding the path.

Right thought, speech, conduct, livelihood, effort, mindfulness and concentration are
the RESULT of right view. All the other path factors are the automatic consequences of
right view, which only noble disciples have. [see SN 45.1]

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards, Vincent.

good point.

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ground
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Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by ground » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:06 am

After having been told "what you are", just sit and verify through watching arising and cessation of "what you are". :sage:

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mirco
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Re: cultivating wisdom?

Post by mirco » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:43 pm

12. WISDOM (paññā): Wisdom means seeing clearly the impersonal process of Dependent Origination. If every time we see the word WISDOM mentioned in any form throughout the texts, we first consider that reference is being made directly concerning ‘the process of dependent origination’, then we will find new meaning in reading the texts. The word wisdom is found in many contexts: As in "and his taints were destroyed with his seeing with wisdom", "he sees with wisdom", "he is wise". Just the word wisdom by itself anywhere should be considered first as being in this context unless it’s very obviously referring to something else.
"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." - Bhikkhu Anālayo

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