At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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poto
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by poto » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:27 pm

Digity wrote:the ozone hole
Since we banned CFCs and with the bulk of them having worked out of the atmosphere, we should see ozone recovering. If you take a look at this chart, it looks like ozone depletion has bottomed out and is starting on a slow recovery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Min_ozone.jpg
Digity wrote: ...polluting the oceans.
That's a real problem that needs to be dealt with.
Digity wrote: Can you think of anything from industrialization that has benefited the environment?
Yes, it has allowed us humans to thrive. Humans are part of the environment, as I do not see us as separate from it. There are hundreds of millions of Buddhists alive now. That's probably more Buddhists than at any time in recorded history. Our world and environment is impermanent, but it pleases me to see that so many of us have a chance at liberation now. Furthermore, industrialization has given us far more leisure time. Of course, this can also be a bad thing if that time is wasted on worldly pursuits. However, for those who are dedicated to the path, it provides far more time for meditation, the ability to give more dana, and time to volunteer helping others. Whereas in centuries past, much of that leisure time would have been spent in labor struggling to survive.
Digity wrote: There's also the issue of sea levels. Is that going to be good? If I lived on an island I wouldn't be too happy about that news. Not saying that climate change will be the end of civilization, but I think it'll ultimately lead to more problems than good. Thinking otherwise is probably wishful thinking.
I find it to be hubris and foolishness to build vast coastal cities and expect them to last forever. Our coastlines are not static. We have been fortunate that our civilization has emerged in a period of calm and stability during this brief warm interglacial period. If you look at the geological history, this stability is not always the case. We humans have the ability to move, not just ourselves, but to rebuild entire cities elsewhere. In my opinion we should use that ability and build more wisely in the future.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis

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Kim OHara
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Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Kim OHara » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:35 pm

Poto,
I think "oblivious" (your word) or blinkered (mine) might actually be a reasonably accurate description of where you're coming from, just from your posts to this thread. They don't show any new knowledge since
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... =60#p43985
or
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 80#p115229

We can pick up from there if you like ... but it would be much nicer for me if you would actually do enough reading from reputable sources to bring yourself up to date.

As for your graph from the Daily Mail, it's a known fraud from a known denialist - see http://www.skepticalscience.com/mislead ... -2012.html

:namaste:
Kim

[edit: fixed link]

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poto
Posts: 369
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Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by poto » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:08 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:Poto,
I think "oblivious" (your word) or blinkered (mine) might actually be a reasonably accurate description of where you're coming from, just from your posts to this thread. They don't show any new knowledge since
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... =60#p43985
or
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 80#p115229

We can pick up from there if you like ... but it would be much nicer for me if you would actually do enough reading from reputable sources to bring yourself up to date.

As for your graph from the Daily Mail, it's a known fraud from a known denialist - see http://www.skepticalscience.com/mislead ... -2012.html

:namaste:
Kim



[edit: fixed link]
Well, NASA's data for the same period looks pretty similar.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.C.gif

Satellite data is also not alarming. Despite a continual rise in atmospheric CO2, temps aren't keeping pace. Meaning all the models and projections of global warming advocates are wrong and continue to be wrong.

http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/ ... 2_v5.5.png

BTW, I see you're still using loaded terms like 'denalist,' which is rather insulting, attempting to compare those who disagree with you with holocaust deniers. I now remember why I stopped replying to this subject. So much unpleasantness... not very conducive to my practice.

Anyway, I'm still not alarmed about man's CO2 output. The reduced solar output has concerned me though. This current solar cycle is only half strength of the normal. Should the sun go quiet after this cycle and enter another minimum, we could see another ice age. I'm fairly sure that solar output trumps any of man's efforts to date.

http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/image ... dict_l.gif

That's all for me now. Maybe I'll check back into one of these threads in a few more years once the next ice age starts ;)
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C. S. Lewis

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Kim OHara
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Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Kim OHara » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:52 am

poto wrote: Well, NASA's data for the same period looks pretty similar.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.C.gif

Satellite data is also not alarming. Despite a continual rise in atmospheric CO2, temps aren't keeping pace. Meaning all the models and projections of global warming advocates are wrong and continue to be wrong.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/ ... 2_v5.5.png
... Anyway, I'm still not alarmed about man's CO2 output. The reduced solar output has concerned me though. This current solar cycle is only half strength of the normal. Should the sun go quiet after this cycle and enter another minimum, we could see another ice age. I'm fairly sure that solar output trumps any of man's efforts to date.

http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/image ... dict_l.gif
In general I like people to be happy and to that extent I'm happy you are not alarmed. On the other hand, I tend to worry about people who have a false sense of security because it can lead them into dangerous places. And I am concerned about any non-expert who disagrees with as many experts as you do, Poto:
http://www.desmogblog.com/2012/11/15/wh ... -pie-chart
poto wrote: BTW, I see you're still using loaded terms like 'denalist,' which is rather insulting, attempting to compare those who disagree with you with holocaust deniers. I now remember why I stopped replying to this subject. So much unpleasantness... not very conducive to my practice.
Well, I don't like to be unpleasant to people but I value truthfulness above politeness when I am forced to choose.
People with your opinions like to call themselves 'skeptics' because that is intellectually respectable and implies reasonableness and open-mindedness. At this stage of our knowledge, however, those opinions can only be based on crass ignorance or be outright lies (see pie chart in link above). Are flat-earthers 'round-earth skeptics'? Are the ID crowd 'skeptical' about evolution? Of course not.
If you were ignorant but willing to learn, you would have read the links I presented and taken them on board or asked for more details. You didn't - not last time, not the time before, not this time.
That leaves lying (more politely, pseudo-skepticism) or denialism. 'Liar', 'pseudo-skeptic' and 'denialist' are all likely to offend (although you were the one who brought up the parallel with Holocaust deniers, not me) but I can't think of another term that is even halfway accurate.
poto wrote:That's all for me now. Maybe I'll check back into one of these threads in a few more years once the next ice age starts ;)
Is that going to be in your next incarnation or the one after? :tongue:

:namaste:
Kim

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Kim OHara
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Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: At our current rate, humanity is hosed.

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:56 pm

On a happier - and more seasonal - note ...
Denialist santa.jpg
Denialist santa.jpg (244.11 KiB) Viewed 1764 times
(from http://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com.au ... stmas.html)

:namaste:
Kim

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