Australia

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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James the Giant
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Re: Australia

Post by James the Giant » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:18 am

Thanavuddho wrote: Because I left without permission, I meaby have to return my monks certificate to Thailand. I don't know if I will ever get it back.
Venerable, that's the government's permission you had to get, right? Interesting control, I guess there's some deep history behind that one.
:anjali:
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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Thanavuddho
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Re: Australia

Post by Thanavuddho » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:55 am

James the Giant wrote:
Thanavuddho wrote: Because I left without permission, I meaby have to return my monks certificate to Thailand. I don't know if I will ever get it back.
Venerable, that's the government's permission you had to get, right? Interesting control, I guess there's some deep history behind that one.
:anjali:
A friend told me that I don't have return my monks certificate (baisutthi) against my will. This is the Thai monks proof of ordination. It's a little yellow booklet.
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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Thanavuddho
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Re: Australia

Post by Thanavuddho » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:32 am

Dear all,

I want to explain about my present situation. In brief: I had the opportunity to leave Wat Marp Jan and I took the opportunity.

For sometime now I've had the wish to move away from WMJ. I had lost my confidence in the acarya there. However, I didn't leave straight away. I was afraid that the acarya wouldn't give me a permission to leave without disrobing first. I have seen this happen at WMJ. Some monks had to run away without their passports. That's because WMJ refused to hand it back to them.

Australia provided me with a new opportunity. There are many monasteries here that are far removed from WMJ. And when things didn't work out for me in Bodhisaddha Monastery, I took the opportunity to leave. Before I left, I informed people about my decision. I arranged a new place to stay at nearby Santi Forest Monastery. I deliberately choose to go to Santi. Some of the things that Bhante Sujato said and did, I agree with. On the other hand, WMJ and the acarya there, disagree with those things.

I think my decision came as a surprise to the acarya and some other people. When I left I met with resistance. I went ahead and left anyway.

I'm well aware that perhaps it seems like I betrayed the trust of my acarya and the lay supporter, who invited me to Australia. But you need to understand the situation. In my defence I will say that, first off all, I wasn't willing to disrobe to get out of WMJ. The second thing is, that I was offered the ticket here without any contitions. I didn't ask for the ticket.

Right now, I'm searching for a new monastery to stay. I like Santi Forest Monastery very much. Now I know that the Fourfold Sangha can live together in harmony. I can come back here another time. Bodhinyanarama in New Zealand has been suggested to me by several people. I will request to stay there next.

With metta,
Thanavuddho
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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tiltbillings
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Re: Australia

Post by tiltbillings » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:45 am

An intertesting on going saga. Let us know what happens next, and good luck.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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James the Giant
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Re: Australia

Post by James the Giant » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:51 am

Venerable, I can offer a couple of hundred dollars in dana if help is needed to get a plane ticket to get over to Bodhinyanarama. I'm sure there are some others on the forum here too who could chip in a bit, if you encounter problems with money.
I hope this isn't too difficult a time for you, and may it all get sorted out soon.

:anjali: :anjali: :anjali:
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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cooran
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Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: Australia

Post by cooran » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:10 pm

Ajahn Kusalo is not presently in residence at Bodhinyanarama, he has been at Dhammagiri Forest Monastery in Queensland for a few days and will be visiting his mother, before returning to New Zealand.

I would contact via the information on the website to find out if it would be suitable and able to accommodate you.

Here is the Monastery website.
http://www.bodhinyanarama.net.nz/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Dan74
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Re: Australia

Post by Dan74 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:18 pm

I confess to wondering what this fleeing from one place to another is really about.

I was also kind of puzzled by the long thread about ordaining, the public statement that was the film and now this thread. Maybe I see this as a very private thing... I'd be interested to hear Phra Thanavuddho share his reasons for doing it this way.
_/|\_

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Ben
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Re: Australia

Post by Ben » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:32 pm

Greetings venerable,

There are a number of monasteries in Australia that you may wish to stay at:

http://www.buddhanet.info/wbd/search.ph ... vince_id=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wishing you all the best,

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Thanavuddho
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Re: Australia

Post by Thanavuddho » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:09 am

Thank you all.
Dan74 wrote:I confess to wondering what this fleeing from one place to another is really about.
I understand why you wonder about it, Dan74. Monks fleeing from WMJ is nothing new. I'm not the first one to do it. In recent years I've seen many monks either disrobe or leave WMJ. And this has been going on even before my time.
I was also kind of puzzled by the long thread about ordaining, the public statement that was the film and now this thread. Maybe I see this as a very private thing... I'd be interested to hear Phra Thanavuddho share his reasons for doing it this way.
I share with you what happens in my life like billions of other people do. If I would be doing this only for my self, I don't think I would have ordained in the first place.
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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Goob
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Re: Australia

Post by Goob » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:19 am

Would you mind sharing some of the reasons why people have been leaving WMJ and perhaps why you decided that you didn't agree with how things were handled? You don't have to name names or anything, I would just like to know what the issues are and since the ball already has been set rolling here in the forum so to speak.
Something tells me this has partly to do with the Australian Bhikkhuni ordination, but I could be wrong..

Thanks for sharing your story. Very interesting.

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James the Giant
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Re: Australia

Post by James the Giant » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:31 pm

richard_rca wrote:Would you mind sharing some of the reasons why people have been leaving WMJ and perhaps why you decided that you didn't agree with how things were handled?
I too am curious, (very curious!) but something in my vinaya-instinct tells me it would be unwholesome to talk about it. Bhikkus talking to laypeople about bhikkus... I dunno, it just seems a little unseemly.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

Goob
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Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:14 pm

Re: Australia

Post by Goob » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:41 pm

James the Giant wrote:
richard_rca wrote:Would you mind sharing some of the reasons why people have been leaving WMJ and perhaps why you decided that you didn't agree with how things were handled?
I too am curious, (very curious!) but something in my vinaya-instinct tells me it would be unwholesome to talk about it. Bhikkus talking to laypeople about bhikkus... I dunno, it just seems a little unseemly.
Hehe, yeah I know, and we all know what happened to the cat, but most of the story has already been revealed anyway and I personally am not directly involved with the Theravada orthodoxy enough to feel that their actions and decisions would be above being discussed, quite the opposite if it's done somewhat respectfully.

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Thanavuddho
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Re: Australia

Post by Thanavuddho » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:18 pm

richard_rca wrote:Would you mind sharing some of the reasons why people have been leaving WMJ and perhaps why you decided that you didn't agree with how things were handled?
Did you know that Thaksin Shinawatra offered a kathina one year at WMJ? This was many years ago. Perhaps at that time Thaksin had better relations with Luangta, than later on.

Two peculiar books have been published after Luangta's death. They contain pictures of different Thai ajahns and short quotations from Luangta's talks. In these quotes Luangta declares these ajahns to have reached different levels of enlightenment.

Both of these books have a picture of Ajahn Anan. Luangta visited WMJ at least two times. Both of these times he said that Ajahn Anan has reached a level of enlightenment.

If Luangta said that, then it has to be true, right? We can take a more careful look at these two books that I mentioned earlier. What method did Luangta use to define who is enlightened and who isn't? Many times he speaks about the remains of a monk that have turned into relics.

One time Ajahn Anan gave me some buddha relics. They where small colorful balls.

"This is a bit strange..." I thought. "how come I got relics of the Buddha so easily?" In fact, every monk at WMJ got a small amount of those relics.

I went to inquire about these relics from the Ajahn.

"Are the relics real, ajahn?" I asked.

"Yes. They are real" Ajahn said. "If you put them in water, they will float and unite in the surface."

I went back to my hut and dropped the relics into a class of water. They sank into the bottom and stayed there. I understand more clearly now why teachers such as Ajahn Chah or Buddhadasa didn't talk much about supernatural phenomenon.
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
Forum: http://www.avoinsangha.fi

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James the Giant
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Re: Australia

Post by James the Giant » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:59 am

Ajahn Anan likes giving away relics. He gave away about 200 to 300 relics during a recent retreat at Bodhivana in Melbourne. I got three, these ones look like coarse sand.
He said they appeared spontaneously in his bag as he was climbing Sri Pada in Sri Lanka.
So, apparently miracles still happen. :thinking:

Relics about 2mm in diameter.
Image
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

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Thanavuddho
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Re: Australia

Post by Thanavuddho » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:07 am

Relics are common in Thailand. If seen huge halls full of different kinds of relics. They play hypnotic chanting in the backround. There's a donation box at the door... This kind of thing is bound not to go down very well with the Westeners.

Ajahn Chah's monastery rules prohibit monks from giving away amulets. :spy:
“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
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