how do you enter jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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DNS
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by DNS » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:52 am

barcsimalsi wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote: There have been numerous enlightenment claimants here at Dhamma Wheel and they all leave in a huff.
But when they realize they are f, they can let go of their old identity and return with a new user name/account. This is happening in what ever forum especially in Buddhist's where we are trained for detachment and rebirth so don't worry about that.
I respect the administrative advice and i do not intend to encourage something crazy. I think Forum is a place for all out inquisition accompanied by advices, arguments and corrections.
Moderators can see IP addresses. Those who left in a huff have not returned; hence the friendly advice I and others gave so that one can get the most out of this forum in the long-term, rather than a short visit (not banning, they left on their own). It was just some advice that is not required to be taken or accepted; to each his own.

:popcorn:

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by barcsimalsi » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:10 am

David N. Snyder wrote: Moderators can see IP addresses. Those who left in a huff have not returned; hence the friendly advice I and others gave so that one can get the most out of this forum in the long-term, rather than a short visit (not banning, they left on their own). It was just some advice that is not required to be taken or accepted; to each his own.

:popcorn:
Got it! :bow:
Thanks.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by Modus.Ponens » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:24 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings MP,
Modus.Ponens wrote:I had two intentions with that post: to change the mentality of the inquisitors and to encourage people who are confortable to share their experiences, answerig the OP.
I know... and not being "an inquisitor", nor having much worth sharing on the topic, I'm endorsing what you've said through my actions....

i.e. "Just answer the questions in this OP if you feel like and if not let it go.".

I chose to let it go ~ you won't find me stifling sincere and productive inquiry. Nor do I buy into the secretive nature of the discussion ~ the Buddha did not teach with a closed fist, so why would we regard the subject as something that others should not openly discuss if they wish to (so long as no monastics break Vinaya in the process)?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Retro,

Sorry for misinterpreting you.

Tilt,

One key word you missed: hyperbole.

I've called some of my friends fascists on ocasion, hyperbolically as a way to make a point. I'm still very good friends with them, because they know I didn't mean that they are really fascists.
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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convivium
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by convivium » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:52 pm

i would recommend finding a teacher who's understanding of jhana is something you have faith in. then, if you can, go there and live with that teacher. the internet is not a great teacher; but there are a lot of meditation instructions on the internet for jhana (for what they're worth). you can call teachers and ask if they have any recommendations for texts on jhana. e.g. ajahn thanissaro recommends ajahn lee method #2 in keeping the breath in mind to visitors, but if you didn't go there, or talk with him, you probably wouldn't know that. i don't have a teacher like that, so i just do what i know. if you keep perfect sila over time, then doing jhana will come more naturally. and if your samadhi isn't that refined, it doesn't mean you can't contemplate the body, and your actions, etc. .

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... .html#path" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by Modus.Ponens » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:17 pm

I apologise to everyone involved in my name calling, especially to the mod team and even more to the mod I contacted privatly. It was biting the hand of those who give me food. I feel guilty and ashamed. I'm sorry.
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by Cittasanto » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:30 pm

Modus.Ponens wrote:I apologise to everyone involved in my name calling, especially to the mod team and even more to the mod I contacted privatly. It was biting the hand of those who give me food. I feel guilty and ashamed. I'm sorry.
:twothumbsup:
to see a fault as a fault is a wonderful thing!
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by mirco » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:58 pm

alan... wrote:what is your step by step process? what does it feel like? what do you do during? afterwards? how many jhanas can you enter? have you mastered any of them? used them for specific purposes? what are your goals?
I do not enter jhana, it's no act of willpower. It just happens when the conditions are right. Mostly it's first jhana, sometimes second. Especially being in second very joyfull. Afterwards I have a very alert, calm and clear mind.

What do you mean with "have you mastered any of them?"

Kind Regards :-)
"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." - Bhikkhu Anālayo

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by Dhammanando » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:53 pm

mirco wrote:
alan... wrote: What do you mean with "have you mastered any of them?"
http://www.buddhanet.net/mettaf3.htm

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by mirco » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:00 am

Very interesting. Since I like the Suttas I'm curious where to find that.

Kind Regards :-)
"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." - Bhikkhu Anālayo

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:33 am

Thanks Cittasanto.

Mirco, Bhante Gunaratana says this in "The Jhanas in Theravada Buddhist Meditation", http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el351.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
After attaining the first jhana a few times the meditator is not advised to set out immediately striving for the second jhana. This would be a foolish and profitless spiritual ambition. Before he is prepared to make the second jhana the goal of his endeavor he must first bring the first jhana to perfection. If he is too eager to reach the second jhana before he has perfected the first, he is likely to fail to gain the second and find himself unable to regain the first. The Buddha compares such a meditator to a foolish cow who, while still unfamiliar with her own pasture, sets out for new pastures and gets lost in the mountains: she fails to find food or drink and is unable to find her way home (A.iv, 418-19).
The underlined part is a sutta reference. Unfortunately, I don't know that code for representing the suttas. Other members who are familiar with it can help.
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by Sylvester » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:47 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:Thanks Cittasanto.

Mirco, Bhante Gunaratana says this in "The Jhanas in Theravada Buddhist Meditation", http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el351.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
After attaining the first jhana a few times the meditator is not advised to set out immediately striving for the second jhana. This would be a foolish and profitless spiritual ambition. Before he is prepared to make the second jhana the goal of his endeavor he must first bring the first jhana to perfection. If he is too eager to reach the second jhana before he has perfected the first, he is likely to fail to gain the second and find himself unable to regain the first. The Buddha compares such a meditator to a foolish cow who, while still unfamiliar with her own pasture, sets out for new pastures and gets lost in the mountains: she fails to find food or drink and is unable to find her way home (A.iv, 418-19).
The underlined part is a sutta reference. Unfortunately, I don't know that code for representing the suttas. Other members who are familiar with it can help.

The sutta at A iv 418 is Gāvīupamā Sutta, AN 9.35 here - http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by daverupa » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:49 am

AN 9.35 wrote:"In the same way, there are cases where a monk — foolish, inexperienced, unfamiliar with his pasture, unskilled in being quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, and entering & remaining in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation — doesn't stick with that theme, doesn't develop it, pursue it, or establish himself firmly in it. The thought occurs to him, 'What if I, with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, were to enter & remain in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance.' He is not able... to enter & remain in the second jhana... The thought occurs to him, 'What if I... were to enter & remain in the first jhana... He is not able... to enter & remain in the first jhana. This is called a monk who has slipped & fallen from both sides, like the mountain cow, foolish, inexperienced, unfamiliar with her pasture, unskilled in roaming on rugged mountains.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:09 am

Thanks people,

MN111 is another sutta that discusses various aspect of mastery:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"There was the case where Sariputta — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful qualities — entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Whatever qualities there are in the first jhana — directed thought, evaluation, rapture, pleasure, singleness of mind, contact, feeling, perception, intention, consciousness, desire, decision, persistence, mindfulness, equanimity, & attention — he ferreted them out one after another. Known to him they arose, known to him they remained, known to him they subsided. He discerned, 'So this is how these qualities, not having been, come into play. Having been, they vanish.' He remained unattracted & unrepelled with regard to those qualities, independent, detached, released, dissociated, with an awareness rid of barriers. He discerned that 'There is a further escape,' and pursuing it there really was for him.
Ascending/desecending (including formless attainments):
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by mirco » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:02 am

:off topic:
mirco wrote:
Very interesting. Since I like the Suttas I'm curious where to find that.
Modus.Ponens wrote:Mirco, Bhante Gunaratana says this in "The Jhanas in Theravada Buddhist Meditation", http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el351.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (A.iv, 418-19).
Thanks Modus (&Sylvester), but in the Gāvīupamā suttaṃ one does not find categories like in the text Dhammanando gave us. Furthermore, I think, that we won't find those categories in the Suttas at all. I bet it's a (visuddhimagga) commentary thing only.

But, back to topic, which is personal jhana experience.

Kind Regards :-)
"An important term for meditative absorption is samadhi. We often translate that as concentration, but that can suggest a certain stiffness. Perhaps unification is a better rendition, as samadhi means to bring together. Deep samadhi isn't at all stiff. It's a process of letting go of other things and coming to a unified experience." - Bhikkhu Anālayo

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Re: how do you enter jhana?

Post by tiltbillings » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:15 am

mirco wrote:Furthermore, I think, that we won't find those categories in the Suttas at all. I bet it's a (visuddhimagga) commentary thing only.
And if it is from the VM, that is a problem?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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