Sexual Misconduct

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
Tehuti
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Tehuti » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:29 pm

I know this may be slightly off-topic, but I would like to raise the following question:

What would be the advice for those tormented by thoughts of unrequited love?

For those who live life on the outside, and see the relationships of others and experience longing - maybe even suffering?

There must be an antidote to these pangs - a way of transcending - but this sort of thing can be so deep set, it becomes difficult to see a way out.

Thank you.

:anjali:

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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by BubbaBuddhist » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:51 pm

Been there. The only cure I know of is requited love. There's more, lots more than one person out there for everyone.

BB
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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Dan74
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Dan74 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:20 pm

Tehuti wrote:I know this may be slightly off-topic, but I would like to raise the following question:

What would be the advice for those tormented by thoughts of unrequited love?

For those who live life on the outside, and see the relationships of others and experience longing - maybe even suffering?

There must be an antidote to these pangs - a way of transcending - but this sort of thing can be so deep set, it becomes difficult to see a way out.

Thank you.

:anjali:

The only people who promptly roll out ready made solutions for these problems (like for your existential crisis) are the ones who haven't been there, I reckon.

The only way I know is to stay with it, neither running away nor wallowing. In time things change.
_/|\_

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convivium
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by convivium » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:00 pm

i want to direct this message at younger people, like me, who are single, already dedicated to the dhamma, have done several retreats, and attempted to keep the precepts for some years. granted this, i want to say this as unassumingly as possible: all the greatest masters were celibate or abstained from orgasm. if you didn't know that, then look into it. there's a reason the buddha said it's better to put your penis in a snake rather than a women to ananda. in some contexts, in some traditions (nyingma, e.g.) your own hand can be worse than having sex with an actual person. no, it's not painless to be celibate.
there came a point in my practice where i realized that either i stop masturbating or i don't progress. when you take away forms of escape, especially those outlined in the precepts, you have to face yourself more directly. that means a lot of pain, because life is suffering.
i found the following analogy to be very helpful: it's like being trapped in a flood, by your leg and the water is rising. would you let it drown you, or have someone saw your leg off right away? really the orgasm is so deeply imbedded in the psyche (not to generalize, but even the buddha said that lust is the hardest kilesa to overcome) that it is the psychological equivalent of having one's leg cut off. before you take oath's of chastity (if you were to), keep this in mind.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

SittingSilent
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by SittingSilent » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:19 pm

I may have what might be a unique problem related to attempting celibacy and not involving myself in self-pleasurement (to use a more discrete term). I am a FTM transperson, so because my body does not naturally produce testosterone I must inject it on a weekly basis to maintain bone density, proper blood cells, etc along with the expect reasons of male presentation, etc. Unfortunately a major side effect of testosterone hormone therapy is a huge increase in libido. I can easily restrain myself from directing this towards other people, but as for not releasing it at all, now that has become a problem. Does anyone have a suggestion for how to deal with my libido while not engaging in behaviors that are undesirable. I would love to be able to follow the five precepts!

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Cittasanto
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Cittasanto » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:55 pm

SittingSilent wrote:I may have what might be a unique problem related to attempting celibacy and not involving myself in self-pleasurement (to use a more discrete term). I am a FTM transperson, so because my body does not naturally produce testosterone I must inject it on a weekly basis to maintain bone density, proper blood cells, etc along with the expect reasons of male presentation, etc. Unfortunately a major side effect of testosterone hormone therapy is a huge increase in libido. I can easily restrain myself from directing this towards other people, but as for not releasing it at all, now that has become a problem. Does anyone have a suggestion for how to deal with my libido while not engaging in behaviors that are undesirable. I would love to be able to follow the five precepts!
Hi SittingSilent.
I would highly recommend you find a respectable teacher you can have regular contact with close by your area for specific guidance as there maybe neuances a close relationship with a teacher is better equiped to advise you on particularly being a transperson. although I think I remember another member is a transperson also?
I am probably over-reacting but contemplations such as the corpse and 32 parts of the body may have stronger adverse effects in your situation than someone who hasn't been through that sort of transition.
I really am trying not to be rude there but you aren't really breaking the five precepts, in my book, with masturbation as celibacy is not the precept here. however there are plenty of threads on this you could look at and a practice of not engaging in fantasies does help.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Cittasanto
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Cittasanto » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:00 pm

and although today seams to be a day of coincidences just came accross this video in the sujjestions
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

mysticmorn
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by mysticmorn » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:31 pm

Sexual misconduct traditionally also meant no sex between a Dharma teacher and the students. This was because in the old days, the students took temporary vows of celibacy while under the guidance of a teacher. Though times have changed, this seems like a very good rule to follow. Since the students tend to put a tremendous amount of trust in the teachers, there is a clear power differential between students and teachers. Care needs to be taken that the students' faith and sacred trust in the teacher not be violated.

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Sovatthika
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Sovatthika » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:01 am

Ben wrote:In one discourse the Buddha lists nineteen(?) types of prohibited types of encounters. Sex within the context of a relationship is ok.
can someone provide this discourse for me
namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammāsambuddhassa

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Mkoll
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Mkoll » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:33 am

Only list I can think of has 9. It's a stock list describing what constitutes sexual misconduct.
MN 41 wrote:“And how, householders, are there three kinds of bodily conduct not in accordance with the Dhamma, unrighteous conduct? Here someone kills living beings; he is murderous, bloody-handed, given to blows and violence, merciless to living beings. He takes what is not given; he takes by way of theft the wealth and property of others in the village or forest. He misconducts himself in sensual pleasures; he has intercourse with women who are protected by their mother, father, mother and father, brother, sister, or relatives, who have a husband, who are protected by law, and even with those who are garlanded in token of betrothal. That is how there are three kinds of bodily conduct not in accordance with the Dhamma, unrighteous conduct.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

DooDoot
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by DooDoot » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:25 am

Sovatthika wrote:
Ben wrote:In one discourse the Buddha lists nineteen(?) types of prohibited types of encounters. Sex within the context of a relationship is ok.
can someone provide this discourse for me
I don't know where this list is from:
What are the twenty types of women? By group name they are:
  • matu-rakkhita — A woman who is kept by her mother is called matu-rakkhita.
    pitu-rakkhita — A woman who is kept by her father is called pitu-rakkhita.
    mata-pitu-rakkhita — A woman who is kept by both her mother and father is called mata-pitu-rakkhita.
    bhatu-rakkhita — A woman who is kept by her older or younger brother is called bhatu-rakkhita.
    bhagini-rakkhita — A woman who is kept by her older or younger sister is called bhagini-rakkhita.
    nati-rakkhita — A woman who is kept by her relatives is called nati-rakkhita.
    gotta-rakkhita — A woman who is kept by her clansmen is called gotta-rakkhita.
    dhamma-rakkhita — A woman who is kept by people who practice Dhamma under the same teacher is called dhamma-rakkhita.
    sarakkha — A woman who is kept by her husband is called sarakkha.
    sapari-danda — A woman of such and such name and address, for misbehaving with whom a king levies a fine against a man, is called sapari-danda.
    dhanak-kita — A woman whose indentureship was bought by a man intending to make her his wife is called dhanak-kita.
    chanda-vasini — A woman who lives with a man of her own free will is called chanda-vasini.
    bhoga-vasini — A woman who becomes the wife of a man because of his wealth is called bhoga-vasini.
    pata-vasini — A destitute woman who becomes the wife of a man out of hope for things such as clothes is called pata- vasini.
    oda-patta-kini — A woman whom a man has asked for in marriage, during the solemnization of which the elders of the family take hold of the bride and groom's hands, plunge the hands into a tray of water and give the blessing, "May both of you love each other and live happily together; do not break apart, just as the water in this tray does not break apart," is called oda-patta-kini.
    obhata-cumbata — A woman who, being released from a heavy burden by a man, then becomes his wife is called obhata-cumbata.
    dasi ca bhariya ca — A slave woman whom a man marries is called dasi-bhariya.
    kamma-karini ca bhariya ca — A workwoman whom a man marries is called kamma-karini-bhariya.
    dhaja-hata — A woman whom a man wins in battle and then makes his wife is called dhaja-hata.
    muhut-tika — A woman living with a man for a certain period of time understanding that she is his wife is called muhut-tika.
Any man who encroaches on any one of these twenty groups of women, along with the factors mentioned above, breaks the third precept, kamesu micchacara.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... satha.html

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Aloka
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Aloka » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:38 pm

.

Are there any prohibited types of men for guys in gay relationships, or for women in heterosexual relationships?


:anjali:
Last edited by Aloka on Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Garrib
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by Garrib » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:01 pm

Aloka wrote:.

Are there any prohibited types of men for guys in gay relationships, or for women in heterosexual relationships?


:anjali:
I would assume that you can infer the prohibitions in these cases - Rule out as a potential partner anyone who is not a single, independent, normal functioning, consenting adult.

DooDoot
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by DooDoot » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:48 pm

Garrib wrote:independent, normal functioning, consenting adult.
This makes it sounds like these so-called 'consenting' adults are arahants with complete self-control & rational decision-making (rather than people driven & enslaved by unwholesome addictive defilements). The scriptures teach parents must marry their children when their children come of age and such married people must be sexually faithful to eachother. The idea of consenting single adults does not exist in the scriptures. Buddhism teaches to act towards other people with non-harming, friendliness (metta) & compassion. I think any sexual conduct motivated primarily by lust is sexual misconduct because it is, per scripture definition, 'unwholesome' & not the intention to create a compassionate metta relationship. Just because the scripture does not prohibit sex with a female monkey or donkey does not make having sex with a female monkey or donkey wholesome & non-suffering. I think more thinking or reflection about the precept is required in the current Western sexual culture which is, in reality, only around 60 years old. In Buddhism, action is only done after reflecting upon that action as not-harmful. This is the central issue (rather than rules or lists of prohibtions). Its Buddhism, which constantly requires wise-reflection (rather than the lists & rules of the Old Testament Torah or Muslim Koran).
Killing living beings is unwholesome; taking what is not given is unwholesome; misconduct in sensual pleasures is unwholesome; false speech is unwholesome; malicious speech is unwholesome; harsh speech is unwholesome; gossip is unwholesome; covetousness is unwholesome; ill will is unwholesome; wrong view is unwholesome. This is called the unwholesome.

Greed (lust) is a root of the unwholesome; hate is a root of the unwholesome; delusion is a root of the unwholesome. This is called the root of the unwholesome.

MN 9

binocular
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by binocular » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:19 am

DooDoot wrote:
Garrib wrote:independent, normal functioning, consenting adult.
This makes it sounds like these so-called 'consenting' adults are arahants with complete self-control & rational decision-making (rather than people driven & enslaved by unwholesome addictive defilements).
Exactly!

Buddhism teaches to act towards other people with non-harming, friendliness (metta) & compassion. I think any sexual conduct motivated primarily by lust is sexual misconduct because it is, per scripture definition, 'unwholesome' & not the intention to create a compassionate metta relationship.
Some people pursue sexual relations because they primarily seek to live by social norms (in order to avoid being stigmatized or ostracised); so this is a kind of sex that is not primarily motivated by sexual lust (or not at all), but by a fear of being branded as "abnormal".
I haven't seen this aspect mentioned in the scriptures yet, though. But it should not be surprising, as people do so many things in order to fit in, to be regarded as normal, to not be excluded from society.
I think more thinking or reflection about the precept is required in the current Western sexual culture
Absolutely.
In Buddhism, action is only done after reflecting upon that action as not-harmful. This is the central issue (rather than rules or lists of prohibtions).
Its Buddhism, which constantly requires wise-reflection (rather than the lists & rules of the Old Testament Torah or Muslim Koran).
And when it is not, it's not Buddhism.

binocular
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Re: Sexual Misconduct

Post by binocular » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:21 am

Here's a recent Dhamma talk by Ven. N. Nyanamoli, no. 32 Celibacy and Sexuality – 4th July 2017.

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