Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
edwhys211
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:28 am

Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by edwhys211 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:07 am

Is there a school (minor or major) that does not take rebirth and karma literally, but view them as symbolic; or a school that is agnostic about rebirth?

User avatar
Polar Bear
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: Bear Republic

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by Polar Bear » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:10 am

Yes, there is... http://secularbuddhism.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Of course, they haven't been around for very long.

:tongue:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by Dan74 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:24 am

In my experience in most Buddhist places they don't require you to subscribe to their views. After all it is primarily about practice rather than believing or disbelieving things.

My teacher for instance believes in rebirth but it is not something that is prominent in her teachings at all. I am more towards the agnostic (neither believe nor disbelieve - I don't know).

More important perhaps is how wise and compassionate the teacher is?
_/|\_

SarathW
Posts: 9415
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by SarathW » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:34 am

Hi Edwhy
Any Buddhist school don’t teach you to take anything literally. It is against Buddha’s advise. You practice, experience and realise yourself.
By the way, it is a good question. :)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by Nyana » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:40 am

polarbuddha101 wrote:Yes, there is... http://secularbuddhism.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Of course, they haven't been around for very long.
This isn't a Buddhist school.

Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by Nyana » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:42 am

edwhys211 wrote:Is there a school (minor or major) that does not take rebirth and karma literally, but view them as symbolic; or a school that is agnostic about rebirth?
No. Karma and rebirth are ubiquitous among all Buddhist schools.

edwhys211
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:28 am

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by edwhys211 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:51 am

Ñāṇa wrote:
edwhys211 wrote:Is there a school (minor or major) that does not take rebirth and karma literally, but view them as symbolic; or a school that is agnostic about rebirth?
No. Karma and rebirth are ubiquitous among all Buddhist schools.
Although from what I have learned, many Buddhists are agnostic about it, or just view it as symbolism, if I am correct.

Nyana
Posts: 2233
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:56 am

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by Nyana » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:16 am

edwhys211 wrote:Although from what I have learned, many Buddhists are agnostic about it, or just view it as symbolism, if I am correct.
The views of those people don't represent the tenets of any Buddhist school. Generally, what modern authors and followers of so-called "Secular Buddhism" etc., are advocating is an appropriation of some aspects of the Buddhadhamma mixed with modern versions of Cārvāka materialist views and epistemology that are flatly rejected by all Buddhist schools.

dude
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:18 am

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by dude » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:12 pm

Yes there are, and their contentions are absurd.
They call themselves followers of the Buddha, but they are in fact enemies of Buddhism, slanderers.
In the Buddha's own words, one who slanders the Buddha is someone who "Claims that the Thus Come said what he did not say, or who claims that The Thus Come One did not say what he said."

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5750
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by Aloka » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:51 pm

Sounds like the beginnings of a Buddhist Inquisition - will there be thumb screws and the rack for these ''enemies of Buddhism'' ?

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by daverupa » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:16 pm

Ñāṇa wrote:Generally, what modern authors and followers of so-called "Secular Buddhism" etc., are advocating is an appropriation of some aspects of the Buddhadhamma mixed with modern versions of Cārvāka materialist views and epistemology that are flatly rejected by all Buddhist schools.
Indian materialism tends to reject causation and moral efficacy, which the Dhamma upholds, if I recall correctly.

Rejecting supernaturalism, however, is a different animal altogether...
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

dude
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:18 am

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by dude » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:32 pm

Aloka wrote:Sounds like the beginnings of a Buddhist Inquisition - will there be thumb screws and the rack for these ''enemies of Buddhism'' ?

Of course not, but there are consequences. The Nirvana Sutra states that one who "reproaches, punishes, or drives [the offender] off is my disciple and understands my teachings."

User avatar
daverupa
Posts: 5980
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by daverupa » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:40 pm

dude wrote:...The Nirvana Sutra...
Care to find where this might be, with respect to any portions which can be found in the Nikayas? Probably somewhere in DN 16, but wow it's not ringing a bell...
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

User avatar
Polar Bear
Posts: 1120
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Location: Bear Republic

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by Polar Bear » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:50 pm

Ñāṇa wrote:
polarbuddha101 wrote:Yes, there is... http://secularbuddhism.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Of course, they haven't been around for very long.
This isn't a Buddhist school.
Yeah, I know, I was half kidding. But anyway, it is slowly turning into one. You can talk about buddhist schools but they are all wrong if they don't follow the dhamma or preach what is not dhamma as dhamma or what is dhamma as not dhamma, but they are still buddhist schools (vajrayana is a possible example). I think the distinction between dhamma-vinaya and school of buddhism is an important one.

:soap:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5750
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Is there a school in Buddhism that fits this view?

Post by Aloka » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:09 pm

dude wrote: The Nirvana Sutra states that one who "reproaches, punishes, or drives [the offender] off is my disciple and understands my teachings."
Is that a Mahayana Sutra ? I haven't read anything yet about the Buddha recommending punishments for people in the Nikayas.
The Nirvana Sutra or Mahāparinirvāṇa Sūtra (Chinese: Nièpán Jīng (涅槃經); Japanese: Nehankyō (涅槃経); Standard Tibetan: myang 'das kyi mdo is one of the major sutras of Mahayana Buddhism.

It shares its title with another well-known Buddhist scripture, the Mahaparinibbana Sutta of the Pali Canon but is quite different in form and content.

It is therefore generally referred to by its full Sanskrit title, Mahāyāna Mahāparinirvāṇa Mahā-sūtra or more commonly simply the "Nirvana Sutra".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana_M ... vana_Sutra

.
Last edited by Aloka on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 45 guests