Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

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alan
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Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by alan » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:58 am

Friends,
Buddhism would not exist without the Suttas. You should read them, and make it your goal to understand. This is the basic starting point. Claiming to be a Buddhist without a basic knowledge of the fundamental teachings is just a fantasy. Don't indulge in fantasy. It will get you nowhere.

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Dan74
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by Dan74 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:19 am

o-brother-where-art-thou-4.jpg
o-brother-where-art-thou-4.jpg (109.25 KiB) Viewed 2584 times
_/|\_

alan
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by alan » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:23 am

Which means what?
Please respect the topic. Pointless jokes are a waste of my time.

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Javi
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by Javi » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:50 am

Alan, as much as I appreciate your enthusiasm, why do you feel the need to post another thread with the same content as your previous one just six days ago? :thinking: Most people here read and respect the suttas, we may have different interpretations, but we all refer to them.
Vayadhammā saṅkhārā appamādena sampādethā — All things decay and disappoint, it is through vigilance that you succeed — Mahāparinibbāna Sutta

Self-taught poverty is a help toward philosophy, for the things which philosophy attempts to teach by reasoning, poverty forces us to practice. — Diogenes of Sinope

I have seen all things that are done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and a chase after wind — Ecclesiastes 1.14

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retrofuturist
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:52 am

namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

:buddha2:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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danieLion
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by danieLion » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:01 am

alan wrote:Friends,
Buddhism would not exist without the Suttas. You should read them, and make it your goal to understand. This is the basic starting point. Claiming to be a Buddhist without a basic knowledge of the fundamental teachings is just a fantasy. Don't indulge in fantasy. It will get you nowhere.
I'm of this opinion also.

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Dan74
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by Dan74 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:38 am

alan wrote:Which means what?
Please respect the topic. Pointless jokes are a waste of my time.
I guess it means that it sounded to me like you were at a pulpit, Alan, delivering a fiery sermon, as much as I love the sutras. I just don't feel that people need to be bashed over the head with this view and using expressions like "height of ignorance" that's what you seem to be doing.

But I prefer the pic, it's from O Brother, Where Art Thou?
_/|\_

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marc108
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by marc108 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:45 am

retrofuturist wrote:namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

:buddha2:

Metta,
Retro. :)

:twothumbsup: :goodpost:
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."

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BlueLotus
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by BlueLotus » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:51 am

Javi wrote:Most people here read and respect the suttas, we may have different interpretations
I have to agree. I think most disputes arise from different sutta interpretations rather than not regarding them as important.

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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by nibbuti » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:21 am

BlueLotus wrote:
Javi wrote:Most people here read and respect the suttas, we may have different interpretations
I have to agree. I think most disputes arise from different sutta interpretations rather than not regarding them as important.
Indeed. Most people who read the suttas misinterpret them at first, which is only natural, then go to replace own misinterpretation with an acknowledged one.

:meditate:

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DAWN
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by DAWN » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:03 am

What is good interpretation ?
What is bad interpretation ?

Relativily to what, depending on what it become good or bad?
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

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Doshin
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by Doshin » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:19 am

alan wrote:Friends,
Buddhism would not exist without the Suttas. You should read them, and make it your goal to understand. This is the basic starting point. Claiming to be a Buddhist without a basic knowledge of the fundamental teachings is just a fantasy. Don't indulge in fantasy. It will get you nowhere.
I don't recall the Suttas being mentioned in the refuge ? Why do you think, that Dhamma would only exist, if there is Suttas ?
Buddham saranam gacchami
I go for refuge to the Buddha;

Dhammam saranam gacchami
I go for refuge to the Dhamma;

Sangham saranam gacchami
I go for refuge to the Sangha.
Dhamma is not a book, Dhamma is not a collection of Suttas...

I see the Sutta Pitaka, as a (one possible) guide to finding/understanding the Dhamma. I'm sure there is many other routes/guides to finding the goal, even non-Buddhist. The only difference is the route and the means to get there.

And when all that is said/written, Buddhism/Buddhist is just words.

I notice that you are very persistent on the topic, of categorising the Suttas as some flavour of sacred. Why is it that important to you ? Is it important ?

Personally I am convinced, that the Dhamma would be there, even without the Suttas.

Gassho
_/\_
Knowing about dhamma, does not imply knowing dhamma

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Dan74
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by Dan74 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:26 pm

I don't have a problem with people venerating the Suttas. Of course they are a means to the end, not the end in itself, but you could be venerating far worse things that that. Plus from venerating one is quite likely to apply them wholeheartedly. Not that the OP advocates venerating the Suttas.

I am also glad that many Mahayana teachers have come back to the Suttas. Not because it was essential but because it is helpful both to heal the rift between traditions and for Mahayana students themselves, many of whom, like me, find inspiration for our practice in the Pali canon.
_/|\_

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BlueLotus
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by BlueLotus » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:25 pm

nibbuti wrote: Indeed. Most people who read the suttas misinterpret them at first, which is only natural, then go to replace own misinterpretation with an acknowledged one.

:meditate:
Oh but "acknowledged" doesn't always mean "accurate" either. It so happens that "world is flat" was once highly acknowledged and incorrect. :meditate:

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tiltbillings
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:58 pm

One way to approach the issue:
  • "We don't use the Pali Canon as a basis for orthodoxy, we use the Pali Canon to investigate our experience." -- Ajahn Sumedho
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Aloka
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by Aloka » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:19 pm

tiltbillings wrote:One way to approach the issue:
  • "We don't use the Pali Canon as a basis for orthodoxy, we use the Pali Canon to investigate our experience." -- Ajahn Sumedho
Do you have a source for the Ajahn Sumedho quote, please Tilt ?


.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by tiltbillings » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:23 pm

Aloka wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:One way to approach the issue:
  • "We don't use the Pali Canon as a basis for orthodoxy, we use the Pali Canon to investigate our experience." -- Ajahn Sumedho
Do you have a source for the Ajahn Sumedho quote, please Tilt ?


.
Damdifino. I saw it years ago in a news letter.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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BlueLotus
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by BlueLotus » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:37 pm

tiltbillings wrote:One way to approach the issue:
  • "We don't use the Pali Canon as a basis for orthodoxy, we use the Pali Canon to investigate our experience." -- Ajahn Sumedho
Very nicely said. :anjali:

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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by danieLion » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:06 pm

Aloka wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:One way to approach the issue:
  • "We don't use the Pali Canon as a basis for orthodoxy, we use the Pali Canon to investigate our experience." -- Ajahn Sumedho
Do you have a source for the Ajahn Sumedho quote, please Tilt ?


.
I think it's in Intuitive Awareness. If not exactly, he says very similar things there.

alan
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Re: Disregarding the Suttas is the height of arrogance.

Post by alan » Sun Dec 16, 2012 2:13 am

Oh, my. Doshin, please tell me how the Dhamma exists if the primary teachings do not exist.
They are our reference point. This seems so obvious it should not need to be mentioned, and yet, I hear some who claim otherwise.
Burden of proof is on you, fiend.

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