50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

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Rhino
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50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by Rhino » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:41 am

50 years ago (27.6.1959) the English Bhikkhu Nanavira Thera attained sotapatti (stream-winner):
NAMO TASSA BHAGAVATO ARAHATO SAMMĀSAMBUDDHASSA

—Ekam samayam Ñānavīro bhikkhu Būndalagāme viharati araññakutikāyam. Tena kho pana samayena Ñānavīro bhikkhu rattiyā pathamam yāmam cankamena āvaranīyehi dhammehi cittam parisodheti, yathāsutam yathāpariyattam dhammam cetasā anuvitakketi anuvicāreti manasānupekkhati. Atha kho Ñānavīrassa bhikkhuno evam yathāsutam yathāpariyattam dhammam cetasā anuvitakkayato anuvicārayato manasānupekkhato virajam vītamalam dhammacakkhum udapādi, Yam kiñci samudayadhammam sabbam tam nirodhadhammanti.
So dhammānusārī māsam hutvā ditthipatto hoti.
(27.6.1959)

'Atthi Kassapa maggo atthi patipadā yathā patipanno sāmam yeva ñassati sāmam dakkhīti, Samano va Gotamo kālavādī bhūtavādī atthavādī dhammavādī vinayavādīti.'


'Ditthivisūkāni upātivatto,
Patto niyāmam patiladdhamaggo,
Uppannañāno 'mhi anaññaneyyo
Eko care khaggavisānakappo'

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HOMAGE TO THE AUSPICIOUS ONE, WORTHY, FULLY AWAKENED

—At one time the monk Ñānavīra was staying in a forest hut near Bundala village. It was during that time, as he was walking up and down in the first watch of the night, that the monk Ñānavīra made his mind quite pure of constraining things, and kept thinking and pondering and reflexively observing the Dhamma as he had heard and learnt it. Then, while the monk Ñānavīra was thus engaged in thinking and pondering and reflexively observing the Dhamma as he had heard and learnt it, the clear and stainless Eye of the Dhamma arose in him: 'Whatever has the nature of arising, all that has the nature of ceasing.'
Having been a teaching-follower for a month, he became one attained to right view.[1]
(27.6.1959)

There is, Kassapa, a path, there is a way by following which one will come to know and see for oneself: 'Indeed, the recluse Gotama speaks at the proper time, speaks on what is, speaks on the purpose, speaks on Dhamma, speaks on Vinaya.' [D. 8: i,165]

'I have gone beyond the writhings of view.
With the path gained I have arrived at assurance.
Knowledge has arisen in me and I am no longer to be guided by another.'
-- [Knowing this,] let him fare lonely as the unicorn! [Suttanipāta 3,21 (verse 55, page 9)]
More about Nanavira:
http://www.nanavira.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanavira_Thera
With best wishes

Only in a vertical view, straight down into the abyss of his own personal existence, is a man capable of apprehending the perilous insecurity of his situation; and only a man who does apprehend this is prepared to listen to the Buddha's Teaching.
Nanavira Thera - Notes on Dhamma

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woini
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by woini » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:57 pm

The venerable did self-inflicted euthanasia on himself, suffering from terminal illness.

Does Buddhism - Theravada condone euthanasia?

Can a sotapanna inflict or allow euthanasia?

I have heard conflicting opinions.
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tiltbillings
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:55 pm

English Bhikkhu Nanavira Thera attained sotapatti (stream-winner):
Says who?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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clw_uk
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:18 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
English Bhikkhu Nanavira Thera attained sotapatti (stream-winner):
Says who?

I think he says so himself in one of his letters or books
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tiltbillings
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:27 pm

clw_uk wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
English Bhikkhu Nanavira Thera attained sotapatti (stream-winner):
Says who?

I think he says so himself in one of his letters or books
Which likely puts him in violation of the Vinaya, but it is all too easy for one to assume that one's experiences are more than they are. It happens all the time. How was Nanvira's supposed attainment verified, by whom?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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clw_uk
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:30 pm

Which likely puts him in violation of the Vinaya, but it is all too easy for one to assume that one's experiences are more than they are. It happens all the time. How was Nanvira's supposed attainment verified, by whom?

:shrug:

How does it get verified by others anyway?
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tiltbillings
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:33 pm

How does it get verified by others anyway?
You might want to actually learn about the tradition you are supposedly following.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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clw_uk
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:35 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
How does it get verified by others anyway?
You might want to actually learn about the tradition you are supposedly following.

Isnt learning an ongoing process? And how can i learn without asking questions?
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tiltbillings
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:47 pm

And how can i learn without asking questions?
Interesting, given that you have lectured us enough here about the naughtiness of rebirth, but since you are willing to ask question, I can only hope you are willing to listen.

Traditionally when a monastic thinks that they have attained a level or Ariya they go to elder monks who have experience to be "tested," to see if the claim of experience meets the criteria spelled out by the tradition. It is fairly simple and it helps to prevent the not unusual trip down the garden path that can likely follow from unusual meditative experiences. We have seen the results of that here.

Ultimately, however, if you are going to take Ven Sumedho seriously, stream entry is just one more thing of which to let go. As for Nanavira, he is an interesting character, but not a very good scholar.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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clw_uk
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by clw_uk » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:58 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
And how can i learn without asking questions?
Interesting, given that you have lectured us enough here about the naughtiness of rebirth, but since you are willing to ask question, I can only hope you are willing to listen.

Traditionally when a monastic thinks that they have attained a level or Ariya they go to elder monks who have experience to be "tested," to see if the claim of experience meets the criteria spelled out by the tradition. It is fairly simple and it helps to prevent the not unusual trip down the garden path that can likely follow from unusual meditative experiences. We have seen the results of that here.

Ultimately, however, if you are going to take Ven Sumedho seriously, stream entry is just one more thing of which to let go. As for Nanavira, he is an interesting character, but not a very good scholar.

Thank you Tilt :smile:


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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by gavesako » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:38 pm

"Do not be a bodhisattva, do not be an arahant, do not be anything at all. If you are a bodhisattva, you will suffer, if you are an arahant, you will suffer, if you are anything at all, you will suffer."

--Ajahn Chah

:anjali:
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
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Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations

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acinteyyo
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by acinteyyo » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:53 pm

:goodpost:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
woini wrote:The venerable did self-inflicted euthanasia on himself, suffering from terminal illness.

Does Buddhism - Theravada condone euthanasia?

Can a sotapanna inflict or allow euthanasia?

I have heard conflicting opinions.
There is a Sutta (MN144) about the bhikkhu Channo who committed suicide. The Buddha said there are certain circumstances whether to commit suicide is a fault or not. Unfortunately I don't know exactly which circumstances but the Sutta helps to get an idea of it.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by Cittasanto » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:15 am

woini wrote:The venerable did self-inflicted euthanasia on himself, suffering from terminal illness.

Does Buddhism - Theravada condone euthanasia?

Can a sotapanna inflict or allow euthanasia?

I have heard conflicting opinions.
Hi Woini,
Have a look at SN 35.87 (4) Channa. BB translation it would apear Channa was already an Arahant at this time, although I think the commentary says otherwise?
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Cittasanto
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by Cittasanto » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:16 am

gavesako wrote:"Do not be a bodhisattva, do not be an arahant, do not be anything at all. If you are a bodhisattva, you will suffer, if you are an arahant, you will suffer, if you are anything at all, you will suffer."

--Ajahn Chah

:anjali:
:anjali: :bow: :anjali: :goodpost:

Nice pic BTW
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Rhino
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Re: 50th Anniversary of Nanavira's sotapatti

Post by Rhino » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:41 am

woini wrote:The venerable did self-inflicted euthanasia on himself, suffering from terminal illness.

Does Buddhism - Theravada condone euthanasia?

Can a sotapanna inflict or allow euthanasia?

I have heard conflicting opinions.
Hello,
Nanavira talked about it in some letters:
http://nanavira.xtreemhost.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=49
http://nanavira.xtreemhost.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=50
http://nanavira.xtreemhost.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=50
With best wishes

Only in a vertical view, straight down into the abyss of his own personal existence, is a man capable of apprehending the perilous insecurity of his situation; and only a man who does apprehend this is prepared to listen to the Buddha's Teaching.
Nanavira Thera - Notes on Dhamma

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