MN 117 has been tampered with

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JhanaStream
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:08 am

Re: MN 117: a counterfeit

Post by JhanaStream » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:37 am

Sekha wrote:
There is the case where a monk — having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building — reflects thus: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the stilling of all fabrications (= sabba·saṅkhāra·samatha), the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving, dispassion, Unbinding.' This is called the perception of dispassion.
And since chanda is a saṅkhāra, it is abandoned like any other saṅkhāra. So on dependence on chanda, one eventually abandons chanda. Simple.
The word 'sankhara' has many applications & meanings. It is possibly the broadest word in the Pali.

Take for example the description of the death of an arahant. It shows a certain kind of sankhara does not cease when the arahant is living.
"Then, friend Yamaka, how would you answer if you are thus asked: A monk, a worthy one, with no more mental effluents: what is he on the break-up of the body, after death?"

"Thus asked, I would answer, 'Form is inconstant... Feeling... Perception... Fabrications (sankhara)... Consciousness is inconstant. That which is inconstant is dukkha. That which is dukkha has ceased and gone to its end."

"Very good, my friend Yamaka. Very good.

Yamaka Sutta
Therefore, in the phase sabbasaṅkhārasamatho, the appropriate meaning of sankhara must be discerned. Also, samatho is generally taken to mean 'calmed' rather than 'destroyed". In short, our interpretation may not necessarily be correct, therefore, there is no need to cling to our personal view about mere theory.

:candle:

tinhtan
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:32 pm

Re: MN 117: a counterfeit

Post by tinhtan » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:07 pm

Sekha wrote:
JhanaStream wrote: I think the onus rests upon you, to demonstrate Buddha taught in dependence on craving, one abandons craving.
This is quite easy, my friend. In dependence on the four right strivings, ie. in dependence on chanda, one cultivates dispassion, which is described at AN 10.60 for example:
There is the case where a monk — having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building — reflects thus: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the stilling of all fabrications (= sabba·saṅkhāra·samatha), the relinquishment of all acquisitions, the ending of craving, dispassion, Unbinding.' This is called the perception of dispassion.
And since chanda is a saṅkhāra, it is abandoned like any other saṅkhāra. So on dependence on chanda, one eventually abandons chanda. Simple.
well, according to this reasoning in bold, one can say
"And since lobha (or dosa) is a saṅkhāra, it is abandoned like any other saṅkhāra. So on dependence on lobha (or dosa), one eventually abandons lobha (or dosa)."

it seems that craving might be lobha or chanda-rāga or kāma tanha but not dhamma chanda
the 4 'wrong paths' are: the path of greed (chanda), of hate, of delusion, of cowardice (bhaya). "One who is freed from evil impulses is no longer liable to take the wrong path of greed, etc.''

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