Anomalous Phenomena/"The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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DAWN
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by DAWN »

Alex123 wrote:
Why can't people who possess super powers show them to more people and put materialist worldview into doubt?
Because peoples dont want to believ that this world is have absolute plasticity.
Even a very simple "superpower" like "thought are material", is very hard to make accept even when you show that it works, them tell "Oh no, it's mistake, it's a chance etc". But now i see more and more peoples who start to see it by them selves, them become awere about fenomenas in their life, and see that the mouvement of their life is in perfect correlation with their mind, so there is much more peoples who speaks about their "super power" experiances.
Actualy there is no any super power, it absolutely normal. Of corse in the forld where nobody knows how drive a car, when some one drive it, them skream "superpower !!!" No! It's just some quantum law! When you drop a ball, it's falling, whn you use superposition - it works!

Quantum law, and Buddha to, tell us that is consciosness that determinate reality, so little bit by little bit, peoples will accept this, will know that ALL IS POSSIBLE, so when doubt will disapear, peoples will live their dreams here and now.

If i will tell you that i have just to think about any fenomena and i am 100% sure that it will heppens tomorow or even next hour, do you will believ me? NO. Do you will try to do it? Perharps. Will you believ that your thought will apear in your life? No. So will it heppens? No.

I dont know if you read Bible, New Testament, but every time when Jesus will heal someone, he ask him, do you believ me? And when this person is healed, Jesus say that it's because you believ.

Quantum physic works when you know that it works.
World is absolutely anicca, absolutely impermanent, have absolute plasticity, platicity is his nature. Have absolute plasticity dont mean, a little bit, or some times, or any think else, but absolutely means ABSOLUTELY.

It's the realm of Nimmānaratī, The world of devas "delighting in their creations", and Paranimmita-vasavatti, The heaven of devas "with power over (others') creations".
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Cittasanto
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by Cittasanto »

hi Alex, dawn.
if someone gives any excuse for why they wouldn't demonstrate such abilities they claim to have I would say because they can not! they are quite literally speaking out of the wrong orifice.

Quantum physics does not deal with the mind or have a philosophy of mind to my knowledge and if I remember correctly there are some scientists about who are far better acquainted with the actual subject who can correct any misunderstanding being thrown about.

If there was enough evidence for something being true there may be doubters (such as young earth or flat earth believers) but the evidence would speak for itself. what people want to believe is not the point of actual evidence, the point of evidence if proof, to show something is. there are those who hate evolution and try to show it didn't happen through pseudo-science doesn't make it any less true!
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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DAWN
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by DAWN »

Cittasanto wrote: Quantum physics does not deal with the mind or have a philosophy of mind to my knowledge and if I remember correctly there are some scientists about who are far better acquainted with the actual subject who can correct any misunderstanding being thrown about.
It deal with the mind. They call it "specator/observer",is the speactator who determinate the state of systhem.

There is little vidio obout one quantum experiance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0v-cvvyc-M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quantum superposition is a fundamental principle of quantum mechanics. It holds that a physical system—such as an electron—exists partly in all its particular, theoretically possible states (or, configuration of its properties) simultaneously; but, when measured, it gives a result corresponding to only one of the possible configurations (as described in interpretation of quantum mechanics)

It works. It's 100%. I have use superposition about 10 years, and i will youse it rest of my life. When you know that somethink heppens, it heppens. when you doubt, you broke it.
It's pure kamma, dirctly visible, here and now. If you want i can give some, or many exemples in my life. Actualy all my life is the fruit of my imagination, all that i have, i thought about it before.

Is the first Verse in Dhammapada, the very first.

Verse 1: All mental phenomena have mind as their forerunner; they have mind as their chief; they are mind-made. If one speaks or acts with an evil mind, 'dukkha' 3 follows him just as the wheel follows the hoofprint of the ox that draws the cart.

Why it works?
Because dhammas are conditioned. To meet some dhamma, there must be a condition for it. This condition is your mind. Realm is in ABSOLUTE harmony, where 1=1, so when in your mind you have one dhamma, this dhamma appears in your life to keep the harmony. One of quality of materialised thought is that this dhamma is given to you, this dhamma comes to you, you dont have to do any effort to obtain it, it's just given.

Pure mirrow.
Humans are like a little kitty who dont understand that he play with his own reflect in mirrow.
To see it, you have to be very awere, and take a note about all mouvement of your mind and compare it with the mouvement of your life. When you move your arm, in mirrow your arm move to. Is simple.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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James the Giant
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by James the Giant »

Sweet. Now, predict my lotto numbers, or alter a finely balanced scale in a sealed box, or change the rate of particle decay in a radioactive sample... and I'll even believe you.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by Cittasanto »

Dawn
I have seen the experiment before, but that doesn't equate to what you are saying.
as James says
James the Giant wrote:Sweet. Now, predict my lotto numbers, or alter a finely balanced scale in a sealed box, or change the rate of particle decay in a radioactive sample... and I'll even believe you.
You can put things down to people not wanting to believe but that is an excuse, and gibberish unless you can definitively show under measurable circumstances.

Bbut also on a very short search the reason (footnote 19 below) is explained but this is just from March 2007.
skeptic.com wrote:“Quantum physics really begins to point to [The Secret],” says a proponent of The Law of Attraction. “It says that you can’t have universe without mind entering into it. The mind is actually shaping the very thing that is being perceived.”18 Here, then, we have an authority on the subject telling us that our minds create reality. First, however, it seems obvious that a universe without sentient minds perceiving it is entirely possible, given that this was the story on Earth for the first 13 billion years. Second, it would seem that this particular proponent of The Law of Attraction is using an understanding of quantum physics based more on the questions that Schrödinger was trying to answer, rather than on the answers themselves. Does the mind of the observer truly shape reality as claimed? After all it is true that, at the quantum level, a scientist has great difficulty recording and measuring particles and their interactions without changing the results of the investigation. Is this because the scientist’s mind is influencing the experiment? Is it because the scientist perceived the experiment and, as a result of perceiving, changed the results? No. The answer is far more mundane. To put it in crudely simplistic terms, as soon as the scientist switches on the light to see what’s going on, other particles, like photons, get in the way. It is the photons that are responsible for messing up the results, not the thoughts of the experimenter.19 This explanation has the obvious disadvantage of being extremely boring and must be ruled out on the basis that it doesn’t support the “create your own reality” claim.
footnotes wrote:18 -
Alan Wolf, The Secret DVD.

19 -
“The Secreteers are alluding, obliquely, to the collapse of a wave function when items in a quantum entangled state are observed. There is no doubt that unexpected results have been surprising physicists for a hundred years, when it comes to the very small, and that it is fiendishly difficult to measure interactions between elementary particles because the measuring apparatus has to be taken into account. However, it is by no means clear that the collapse of a wave function in anything more than a convenient mathematical metaphor for something which we can explain with equations, but not with words (although David Z. Albert does a creditable job of trying in Quantum Mechanics and Experience. Cambridge Mass.: Harvard University Press, 1992). Furthermore, the leap from being able to influence an electron going through one of two slits to being able to influence an entire mail-order universe is unquantifiably vast. Surprising effects that work reliably well at the very small (such as electron tunneling, the foundation of semiconductors) utterly fail to work at the very large (such as BMW tunneling, in which a fully-formed BMW disappears from the factory and appears in your driveway, merely because you asserted that you wanted one).” Steve Hansen Smythe, from private email correspondence.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by Raksha »

Alex123 wrote:Why can't people who possess super powers show them to more people and put materialist worldview into doubt?
The world would probably see nothing at all. I once sat a long conference table at the meeting of a Buddhist charity and an elderly monk put a bronze Buddha image on the table. The bronze statue then turned to briefly glance at one of the people present. I began to sweat profusely and shake from head to toe with terror. I looked up and saw that two others present were in a similar state of shock but the other dozen people saw absolutely nothing, even though it was right under their noses.
So what is out there beyond our perception? My guess is everything; dragons, ogres, wizards, magic swords and everything that ever been written, and then some more! What we have instead is this dire consensus reality supported by the feverish desires of billions who project this 'reality', and wow is it strong. This is Mara's realm. Who can step out of line and say excuse me legions of Mara, and the combined magic power of the projected false desires of every living being on this world since the dawn of time, but I would like to prove you all wrong. I will now demonstrate that the very fabric on which your world is based is as empty as the sky, a dream, or a tall story that you once heard, and oh, by the way sorry if you die of shock or become mentally deranged. There was one person I can think of who had the power, compassion and skill to step out of line in this way and challenge the entire universe, slashing open this tangled web of misery and lies to reveal the Truth...Prince Gautama, Sage of the Sakyas.
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by James the Giant »

Raksha wrote: I once sat a long conference table at the meeting of a Buddhist charity and an elderly monk put a bronze Buddha image on the table and then it turned to briefly glance at one of the people present. I began to sweat profusely and shake from head to toe with terror. I looked up and saw that two others present were also in a state of shock but the other dozen people present saw absolutely nothing out of the ordinary, even though it was right under their noses.
Maybe they thought the bronze statue was quite normal? Why were you and the other two people in terror? I don't understand.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11
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DAWN
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by DAWN »

Cittasanto wrote:Dawn
I have seen the experiment before, but that doesn't equate to what you are saying.
I post this vidio to answer on your doubts about action of consiciosness in quantum physics. This vidio talks about Intrication, and Superposition to, because before the observator verify, we dont know the statement of dhamma, so he is in superposition.

You can not say if it works or not, because you have never try.

So dont believ me, i have nothing to proove, but when you will try, and see it by your own, you will change.

The difference between an practitioner, and an talker, is that one practitioner see The Dhamma, see the cause of dhammas, see the birth of dhammas, see death of dhammas. A talker dont practice, so he dont see The Dhamma, he dont see the cause of dhammas, he dont see birth of dhammas, he dont see death of dhammas, so he still talking.

When you will see the cause of dhammas, the birth of dhammas, the death of dhammas, by your own eyes, you will stop be sceptic about The Dhamma.

Regards, and Metta, a lot of Metta
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by Cittasanto »

dawn
Actually I can say if it does or does not work, and whether or not I have tried something is not in your knowledge.
You obviously didn't read the whole post and resorting to ad homminum and twisting what is said still doesn't address anything actually said.
DAWN wrote:
Cittasanto wrote:Dawn
I have seen the experiment before, but that doesn't equate to what you are saying.
I post this vidio to answer on your doubts about action of consiciosness in quantum physics. This vidio talks about Intrication, and Superposition to, because before the observator verify, we dont know the statement of dhamma, so he is in superposition.

You can not say if it works or not, because you have never try.

So dont believ me, i have nothing to proove, but when you will try, and see it by your own, you will change.

The difference between an practitioner, and an talker, is that one practitioner see The Dhamma, see the cause of dhammas, see the birth of dhammas, see death of dhammas. A talker dont practice, so he dont see The Dhamma, he dont see the cause of dhammas, he dont see birth of dhammas, he dont see death of dhammas, so he still talking.

When you will see the cause of dhammas, the birth of dhammas, the death of dhammas, by your own eyes, you will stop be sceptic about The Dhamma.

Regards, and Metta, a lot of Metta
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by Yana »

James the Giant wrote:
Raksha wrote: I once sat a long conference table at the meeting of a Buddhist charity and an elderly monk put a bronze Buddha image on the table and then it turned to briefly glance at one of the people present. I began to sweat profusely and shake from head to toe with terror. I looked up and saw that two others present were also in a state of shock but the other dozen people present saw absolutely nothing out of the ordinary, even though it was right under their noses.
Maybe they thought the bronze statue was quite normal? Why were you and the other two people in terror? I don't understand.
..*cough* batteries uh *cough*cough*
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

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..*cough* batteries uh *cough*cough*
+1
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by Sambojjhanga »

Yana wrote:
James the Giant wrote:
Raksha wrote: I once sat a long conference table at the meeting of a Buddhist charity and an elderly monk put a bronze Buddha image on the table and then it turned to briefly glance at one of the people present. I began to sweat profusely and shake from head to toe with terror. I looked up and saw that two others present were also in a state of shock but the other dozen people present saw absolutely nothing out of the ordinary, even though it was right under their noses.
Maybe they thought the bronze statue was quite normal? Why were you and the other two people in terror? I don't understand.
..*cough* batteries uh *cough*cough*
Raksha, this is why it's best to not speak of such things.

For those who know, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible.

Metta!

:anjali:
Sabba rasam dhammaraso jinati
The flavor of the dhamma exceeds all other flavors
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by Cittasanto »

Sambojjhanga wrote:
Raksha, this is why it's best to not speak of such things.

For those who know, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible.

Metta!

:anjali:
That is like saying
For those who know math, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't know math, math can not be taught or demonstrated.

the main thing is that no one has demonstrated to people who are offering prizes (since Houdini) through demonstrable ways which can not be explained in any other way the possibility of such abilities. leads to the conclusion of keck y vooar
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

Cittasanto wrote:the main thing is that no one has demonstrated to people who are offering prizes (since Houdini) through demonstrable ways which can not be explained in any other way the possibility of such abilities. leads to the conclusion of keck y vooar
The Buddha himself rejected such silliness:
DN 11 wrote:I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying at Nalanda in Pavarika's mango grove. Then Kevatta the householder approached the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One: "Lord, this Nalanda is powerful, both prosperous and populous, filled with people who have faith in the Blessed One. It would be good if the Blessed One were to direct a monk to display a miracle of psychic power from his superior human state so that Nalanda would to an even greater extent have faith in the Blessed One."

When this was said, the Blessed One said to Kevatta the householder, "Kevatta, I don't teach the monks in this way: 'Come, monks, display a miracle of psychic power to the lay people clad in white.'"

A second time... A third time, Kevatta the householder said to the Blessed One: "I won't argue with the Blessed One, but I tell you: Lord, this Nalanda is powerful, both prosperous and populous, filled with people who have faith in the Blessed One. It would be good if the Blessed One were to direct a monk to display a miracle of psychic power from his superior human state so that Nalanda would to an even greater extent have faith in the Blessed One."

A third time, the Blessed One said to Kevatta the householder, "Kevatta, I don't teach the monks in this way: 'Come, monks, display a miracle of psychic power to the lay people clad in white.'

"Kevatta, there are these three miracles that I have declared, having directly known and realized them for myself. Which three? The miracle of psychic power, the miracle of telepathy, and the miracle of instruction.
He goes on to state that such miracles are not likely to bring people to anything but either a superficial faith or defensive skepticism, going to far as to say: "Seeing this drawback to the miracle of psychic power, Kevatta, I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted with the miracle of psychic power."

The true miracle is the teaching of the Dhamma, which is far greater and more beautiful than any worthless display of magic, regardless of whether or not it is "real."
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Post by Sambojjhanga »

Cittasanto wrote:
Sambojjhanga wrote:
Raksha, this is why it's best to not speak of such things.

For those who know, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't, no explanation is possible.

Metta!

:anjali:
That is like saying
For those who know math, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't know math, math can not be taught or demonstrated.

the main thing is that no one has demonstrated to people who are offering prizes (since Houdini) through demonstrable ways which can not be explained in any other way the possibility of such abilities. leads to the conclusion of keck y vooar
Not at all. It is more akin to explaining to a blind man what colors are or to a person who's never experienced love what falling in love is like.

BTW, I have no idea what "keck y vooar" means, I googled it but to no avail.

I think that one of the main reasons that tests like those proposed by James Randi haven't been taken is due to the fact that people who've experienced the siddhi's don't have the precise control over them that Randi designs into his tests. See: http://dailygrail.com/features/the-myth ... -challenge

Afterall, Rashka witnessed the Buddha moving, HE never said he caused it to move! Kind of hard to submit something like that to Randi's tests, no? I will say that what I've experienced has been in a similar vein and certainly not something I could submit to Randi's testing, not that I'm really inclined to do so in any case.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else of the veracity of such things. Rashka related his story, and true-to-form, he was met with derision and ridicule. Pretty much par for the course.

I know what I have experienced. I made the mistake of mentioning it here, on a Buddhist forum, where I assumed a bit of open-mindedness, considering people practice with the goal of Nibbana, something I'm quite sure that non-Buddhists often consider a fool's errand. I personally find the reactions in such a place a bit off-putting, but then nothing in Samsara surprises me that much anymore.

I would suggest to you that this is very typical of the history of discovery in our world. There are many, many examples of this in the history of scientific discovery, but one that comes to mind is the "discovery" of meteorites by Jean-Baptiste Biot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Biot Until he made this discovery, the Royal Academy considered such phenomena to be the reports of charlatans. As I say, this is fairly typical how dogmatic science can be. You might want to check out the work of Rupert Sheldrake and Jacques F. Vallee for more on the current state of scientific dogmatism. BTW, in case you don't know, both men have excellent scientific pedigrees and both are true pioneers and like all pioneers, are subject to derision and ridicule.

One final thing. Until I experienced what I have experienced, I felt exactly the way you do, so I'm not that surprised...though I will admit that I was not a practicing Buddhist at that time...just a strict scientific materialist. Something I've thankfully outgrown.

Metta!

:anjali:
Sabba rasam dhammaraso jinati
The flavor of the dhamma exceeds all other flavors
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