Hi,
Is there any mention of levels of bad deeds in Pali canon?
Is there any levels to bad deeds/kamma such as;
Getting something which was put aside by a rich person without letting him know and stealing from a poor man.
Killing an insect, a bigger animal or a human?
There are levels of good deeds one can perform as alms giving as it is stated in Velaama Sutta.
http://www.vipassanadhura.com/ScaleofGoodDeeds.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Merits you get by perform some acts are far more superior to others, same way is there any levels in bad deeds?
Hope my question is clear enough.
Thanks,
CJ
Is there any levels of bad deeds
- LonesomeYogurt
- Posts: 900
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
- Location: America
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
There are definitely actions more or less wholesome than one another. For example, killing an Arahant guarantees rebirth in Hell whereas murdering an unenlightened person does not.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
The more suffering a bad deed generates, the worse it is.
The more suffering a good deed prevents, the better it is.
The more suffering a good deed prevents, the better it is.
-
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:47 pm
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
This, but also the more happiness a good dead brings, the better it is.David2 wrote:The more suffering a bad deed generates, the worse it is.
The more suffering a good deed prevents, the better it is.
It is important to consider that some people do not fully understand the mechanism of suffering and therefore do not have permanent happiness and still reside in the world of requirements/satisfaction
theres is no need for needing
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
Thanks for all replies but still I didn't get the answer I'm looking for. Can anyone please point me to a sutta where I can study this further.
More questions;
So if someone did a bad deed like killing mosquitoes and good deeds like giving alms to meditating monks, does his bad kamma get neutralized by good kamma?
If someone keep practicing metta meditations in this lifetime without doing much bad deeds can he neutralized some of his bad kamma in this life time?
Thanks a lot,
CJ
More questions;
So if someone did a bad deed like killing mosquitoes and good deeds like giving alms to meditating monks, does his bad kamma get neutralized by good kamma?
If someone keep practicing metta meditations in this lifetime without doing much bad deeds can he neutralized some of his bad kamma in this life time?
Thanks a lot,
CJ
-
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:47 pm
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
the bad karma can be neutralized if the good karma is equal in goodness as to the badness of the bad karmaC J wrote:Thanks for all replies but still I didn't get the answer I'm looking for. Can anyone please point me to a sutta where I can study this further.
More questions;
So if someone did a bad deed like killing mosquitoes and good deeds like giving alms to meditating monks, does his bad kamma get neutralized by good kamma?
If someone keep practicing metta meditations in this lifetime without doing much bad deeds can he neutralized some of his bad kamma in this life time?
Thanks a lot,
CJ
try picturing it like a scale, and causing suffering/preventing happiness of you or other people as bringing the scale down , but causing happiness and stopping suffering as bringing the scale up,
karma can be evaluated by how much suffering it causes/prevents and how much happiness it brings/prevents
theres is no need for needing
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
As I understood aanantariya kamma are the worst, level 1 of bad deeds.
The five heinous crimes(aanantariyakamma) are: patricide, matricide, the murder of an Arahant, the wounding of a Buddha, and maliciously creating a schism in the Sangha.
What is the next level?
The five heinous crimes(aanantariyakamma) are: patricide, matricide, the murder of an Arahant, the wounding of a Buddha, and maliciously creating a schism in the Sangha.
What is the next level?
-
- Posts: 1285
- Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:46 am
- Location: Essex, UK
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
With regards to neutralising kamma, my understanding was that effect always follows cause and cannot be avoided by making new causes. I cannot think of any references to this right now.
- Cittasanto
- Posts: 6646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
- Location: Ellan Vannin
- Contact:
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
Angulimala is a good example of not cutting off bad kamma.Mawkish1983 wrote:With regards to neutralising kamma, my understanding was that effect always follows cause and cannot be avoided by making new causes. I cannot think of any references to this right now.
he became an Arahant yet still had to meet the results of his actions. sure he didn't recieve all before death, but his attainment didn't nullify the actions done.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
IMO, the next level is the five precepts, many times the Buddha said that doing those five actions will lead to hell and by not doing those five actions will lead happiness. I have never read anything worse than violating five precepts and not bad as aanantariyaC J wrote:As I understood aanantariya kamma are the worst, level 1 of bad deeds.
The five heinous crimes(aanantariyakamma) are: patricide, matricide, the murder of an Arahant, the wounding of a Buddha, and maliciously creating a schism in the Sangha.
What is the next level?
Regards
Please stop following me
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:26 am
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
LonesomeYogurt wrote:There are definitely actions more or less wholesome than one another. For example, killing an Arahant guarantees rebirth in Hell whereas murdering an unenlightened person does not.
Is this accurate? If so I think my views on Buddhism just radically changed.
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:26 am
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
"the bad karma can be neutralized if the good karma is equal in goodness as to the badness of the bad karma
try picturing it like a scale, and causing suffering/preventing happiness of you or other people as bringing the scale down , but causing happiness and stopping suffering as bringing the scale up,
karma can be evaluated by how much suffering it causes/prevents and how much happiness it brings/prevents"
-----------------------------------------------------
I do not believe this is true. Karma doesn't work on a fixed scale, there isn't a central point that raises with good Karma, and lowers with bad Karma.
You obtain positive Karma, which is basically an action you made that later in life will bring about a positive feeling attached to that action.
And you obtain negative Karma, which is an action you made, that later in life will bring about a negative feeling attached to that action.
And enlightenment is freedom from Karma, you act morally righteous not intentionally, but naturally. Good deeds come about on their own, rather than by decision.
You could have 1,000 Positive Karmic seeds and 1,000 negative Karmic seeds. This won't put you into enlightenment smack in the middle, and it won't negate. You will have 1,000 experiences in life that will bring about positive or negative feelings based on the actions that created the seeds.
try picturing it like a scale, and causing suffering/preventing happiness of you or other people as bringing the scale down , but causing happiness and stopping suffering as bringing the scale up,
karma can be evaluated by how much suffering it causes/prevents and how much happiness it brings/prevents"
-----------------------------------------------------
I do not believe this is true. Karma doesn't work on a fixed scale, there isn't a central point that raises with good Karma, and lowers with bad Karma.
You obtain positive Karma, which is basically an action you made that later in life will bring about a positive feeling attached to that action.
And you obtain negative Karma, which is an action you made, that later in life will bring about a negative feeling attached to that action.
And enlightenment is freedom from Karma, you act morally righteous not intentionally, but naturally. Good deeds come about on their own, rather than by decision.
You could have 1,000 Positive Karmic seeds and 1,000 negative Karmic seeds. This won't put you into enlightenment smack in the middle, and it won't negate. You will have 1,000 experiences in life that will bring about positive or negative feelings based on the actions that created the seeds.
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:26 am
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
In fact if this is true, I am 100% done with Buddhism, and will be moving along to being a simple unenlightened being of lesser value than the great and mighty Arahant superiors.LonesomeYogurt wrote:There are definitely actions more or less wholesome than one another. For example, killing an Arahant guarantees rebirth in Hell whereas murdering an unenlightened person does not.
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
Yes, it is accurateCoreyNiles92 wrote:LonesomeYogurt wrote:There are definitely actions more or less wholesome than one another. For example, killing an Arahant guarantees rebirth in Hell whereas murdering an unenlightened person does not.
Is this accurate? If so I think my views on Buddhism just radically changed.
Regards
Please stop following me
-
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:26 am
Re: Is there any levels of bad deeds
Ahh well, I enjoyed my time learning about Buddhism while it lasted I had a completely different understanding on it's teachings. I don't value myself more than any other, so I do not wish to embark on a journey to become of greater value than anyone else.