Homeopathic medicine kills people.

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Mawkish1983
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Mawkish1983 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:36 am

Bubbabuddhist wrote:Was going to make a comment about developing a sense of humor
A kid is dead.

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Jechbi
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Jechbi » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:58 am

Not to defend homeopathy, but straight from the ever-reliable (wink) Wikipedia:
As homeopathic remedies usually contain only water and/or alcohol, they are thought to be generally safe.
The kid is dead because her parents made a horrible mistake.

Another issue (at least in the U.S.) may be access to affordable health-care. Faced with lack of insurance, some folks might just buy the stuff because they don't have a doctor to give them appropriate care, and they don't know any better. So we could say ignorance kills people. Or we could say poverty kills people. And so on.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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Annapurna
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Annapurna » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:52 am

Jechbi wrote:That's why some people buy Windex.

In all fairness, I don't think we can say homeopathic medicine kills people. Some folks who believe in it and receive care from homeopathic health practitioners probably experience some benefit. We can say it's just a placebo effect, but the same could be said of conventional medicine in some cases. Just ask your doctor if you don't believe me.

If we want to say that homeopathic medicine kills people, then in all fairness we have to say that conventional medicine kills people, too.
Hi Jechbi, good post, all in all.

The Placebo effect is of course something that arises in our thoughts, especially when we are not familiar with a method.

The Placebo effect has 2 typical characteristics:

1. It wears off after ~6 weeks,
2. It is impossible for animals to develop it.

However, healings with homeopathy often last lifelong, and animals heal just as well as humans.

I'm a born sceptic, and only use methods that I have tested for months or years.

I am staying with homeopathy because of lasting healings, and effects on animals, seen it myself.


I've discarded other methods that seem to be "New Age imagination bogus" to me.

But perhaps I am only biased, because I don't comprehend or can't feel their subtlety, yet.

I'm not an accomplished Yogi.

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Fede
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Fede » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:19 am

I have been using homoeopathic treatments for the past thirty years and will continue to do so because I know they are effective.
If the British National Health System recognises homoeopathy as a legitimate form of treatment, I don't see why we shouldn't be a bit more open-minded about it....

http://www.trusthomeopathy.org/getting_ ... n_the_nhs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To dismiss is as magic, hocus-pocus and something purely utilised as a placebo, shows a marked degree of arrogance and ignorance.
It also at a single stroke serves to undervalue and ridicule the thousands of people who have made it their business to work in homoeopathy, and it presupposes those who have used remedies to be at best, deluded and at worst, liars.
Which is not the way I would expect people here to respond....

If I may say so.

What a good thing we do not approach other 'truths' in such a stonewalling :quote: manner..... :roll:
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Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Jechbi
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Jechbi » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:40 pm

But there are solid reasons for skeptical doubt about some of the ideas behind mainstream homeopathy. For example, how can water have "memory"?

I think the concept of treating likes with likes has some basis. Isn't that how allergy shots work, by slowly helping the body to get used to the allergens? But in homeopathy, the dosages are so minute (even non-existent) that it's not clear to me how they could have any effect on the body, short of magic.

Also, if a person is healed, it doesn't make sense to say the placebo effect "wears off." Where did the six-week figure come from?

And I agree we should be open minded, but really, I don't think dismissing homeopathy is a case of arrogance or closed-mindedness. Saying that homeopathy skeptics are closed-minded and arrogant does nothing at all to support the argument in favor of homoepathy.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

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Annapurna
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Annapurna » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:31 pm

Jechbi wrote: For example, how can water have "memory"? ....

I think the concept of treating likes with likes has some basis. Isn't that how allergy shots work, by slowly helping the body to get used to the allergens? But in homeopathy, the dosages are so minute (even non-existent) that it's not clear to me how they could have any effect on the body, short of magic.
Hi,again, Jechbi!


Indi, and all... :anjali:

I will make an attempt to explain the theory, if you like.

Yesterday, I was reading a book by the Dalai Lama, and he explained in one chapter our body.

He described, how we all have this material body, that we can touch and see and feel.

Then he explained how we also have a subtle body, and a very subtle body....

When we are sick, the material body is having problems, and we often try to influence it material substances, which we can count and weigh=quantify.

Those are medicines with, for instance, 10 mg of this substance, and 20 mg of that substance, and so forth. You get the drift, don't you?

Okay.
Now here we are dealing with material substances, but they don't make ALL of our reality.

There are also the subtle bodies that the Dalai Lama explains.


We are alive, when our physical body is connected with our awareness.

If they part, we die.

In the case of a natural death,the progress of death follows a certain pattern.

First, the 25 less subtle factors dissolve.

For instance, the senses, like clear vision decrease...

After the heartbeat and breathing stops, a doctor would declare the person as dead.

However, in Buddhist texts, says HHDL,the being is still in the process of dying.The mental awareness is still there .That doesn't mean we can return to life though.

Within the mental awareness, there are many levels, which are of different sublety.

The general nature of "Geist" (mind,spirit,awareness?) is pure light and realization.


So....one could say,-roughly-and to make it short:

We've have material remedies on this planet ,and subtle remedies.

In the highest,most sublte dilutions, Homeopathic remedies carry nothing but the energetic information of the original substance.

All information has´been pressed into the water molecules,through heavy and severe shakes.

The shakes are likethis:

You take a small bottle with 100 drops of water,and one drop of and substance and hit the bottle 30 times with one hand onto the other.

The water seems to get "impregnated" with the molecular form of the substance, and stays "impressed", literally so. We have created a Centesimal dilution. =C 1.

Next step:

You take only one drop of this C 1, add 100 drops of fresh water, and hit the bottle 30 times onto your other hand. = C 2.

Repeating this will bring you to C 3, C4, C 5, C6, C 200 etc.

While the dilution is getting thinner and thinner, the information still doesn't get lost, only becomes more subtle, and very very subtle.

Since our body is not only physical, but also subtle energy and awareness, we can benefit from interventions with both material and subtle remedies.

The mind is the origin of all mental and physical impurities.


I hope very much that my explanation was good.
:anjali:

nathan
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by nathan » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:49 am

I'd just like to point out that there isn't a single drug in the world that can produce 100% consistent results. That is the benchmark for 'science', 100% replicability. So, to put it simply, to say that drug treatments are science is bullsh_t, it's witchcraft just as surely as homeopathy is, if, in fact, that is what it is, which seems doubtful. Don't witches fly around on brooms or something? They're aviation enthusiasts then, right? Or so we are told, according to leading sources. Having seen innumerable saturday morning cartoons on the subject and so forth, I feel qualified to say, yes, surely they must be aviation enthusiasts.

There, that should settle things once and for all.

be well people
:smile:
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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