Homeopathic medicine kills people.

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Individual
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Individual » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:16 pm

Guy wrote:The pharmaceutical industry has gone to great lengths throughout history to spread propaganda to discredit and defame homeopathic practitioners since the beginning of the allopathic approach.
What is their motive? Could they not sell homeopathic medicines too?

As an industry, yes, they can lobby the government to craft policies to their benefit... But as individual companies, they have an incentive to develop new drugs and, if it is apparently often dangerous, homeopathy could bas classed a "drug" and thus patented.
Guy wrote: Not only that, but the original pharmacists were NOT health professionals, but mining and oil professionals.
Back then, were oil and mining monopolistic industries the way they are now?
Annabel wrote: We have countless evidence for it, amongst them first class doctors.
This is anecdotal, though. The overwhelming majority of doctors regard homeopathy as pseudoscience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Homeopathy basically seems to have developed historically as a misunderstanding of the nature of the immune system's anti-bodies... It was observed that if a person got sick, they could develop an immunity to the disease (through the body producing anti-bodies). So, a vaccine is just a weakened version of a disease, in order to create anti-bodies. Well, Samuel Hahnemann misunderstood this process to mean that ANY harmful substance, in diluted amounts, which causes a particular condition... is the cure for this condition. But that's clearly ludicrous, like suggesting a small puff on a cigarette is the cure for cancer!!
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Annapurna
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Annapurna » Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:58 pm

Individual wrote:
Annabel wrote: We have countless evidence for it, amongst them first class doctors.
This is anecdotal, though. The overwhelming majority of doctors regard homeopathy as pseudoscience.
Indi, does quantity equal qualiiy? :smile:

Also: the overwhelming majority of doctors have to pay off expensive high tech machines, and so they have to make as much money as possible. This is only possible if you wave a new patient in every 10 minutes, or sooner, and write out a quick prescription for : antibiotic, antidepressant, cortison, betablocker, painkiller, hallu-killer,etc.

The homeopathic will spend hours investigating the patients exact symptoms, family diseases, and compare the patients symptoms with remedies that produce similar symptoms in a healthy person.

I'll give you an example from myself.

I used to get a skin disease on my upper arms each fall. It would get larger and larger and resist all cremes and therapies from the doctors.

Come spring,it would disappear by it self, after exposition to sunlight...

When I began to study homeopathy, I looked for a remedy for this.

I found one with the description:

"Patient gets skin irritations of all sorts only in winter,is completely free of it in summer."

The name is"Psorinum" . It sounds a bit like Psoriasis, doesn't it?

Anyhow, I took 3 tiny pills.and felt nothing.

But after 2 weeks the rash had completely vanished, and that was before X-mas.It usually disappeared in March or April.

It never returned. I had had this for so many years. No doctor could help.

Another example.

My father had tuberculosis as a boy, but completely healed from it.

However, I had Tuberculosis symptoms often , without having the infection...

Samul Hahnemann concluded,that people must somehow pass on toxins of past infections to their offsprings, children, and in thisway, certain tendencies run in a family. They get "inherited".

I studied "Tuberculinum,"the remedy for Tuberculosis toxins, and decided to play ginny pig and try it on myself.

I took 2 tiny pills of Tuberculinum D 200, this means the substance is diluted 200 times in decimal steps.


The wellbeing I had in the next days was unbelievable. I lost the TB symptoms for good.

I have tested countless remedies in my sceptical beginner's phase.

A few times I had the wrong dilution, the lower, the stronger, and felt worse, and that taught me respect.


I'm very thankful I found this method. I became stronger, when all other things hadn't worked.

:anjali:

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cooran
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by cooran » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:15 pm

Hello all,

Skullduggery in the medical profession???

Interesting article:
Homeopathy, the Royal Choice
http://www.darshem.org/sys-tmpl/homeopathy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Mawkish1983 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:42 pm

Annabel wrote: Homeopathy ... runs in the same tracks as acupuncture, Tibetan medicine and Ayurveda, albeit younger..

Do you want to dismiss those as witchcraft as well?
Yep :) if I need medical help I go to the medical professionals and trust medicine that has been rigorously scientifically tested. Homeopathy has not. I have read paper after paper in reputable medical journals about 'alternative remedies' of all kinds, including homeopathy, accupuncture, hot cups, stones, crystals, you name it. In all the scientifically performed experiments I have read about there has been ZERO evidence that the 'alternative remedies' work. So, just as I trust a pilot to fly a plane, I trust mainstream perscribed accredited thoroughly tested and universally accepted medical practitioners over 'homepathy practitioners'.

But, as I've said again and again, if you feel happy giving your money to these people and taking whatever they spoon-feed you, fine :) science it is not.

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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Ben » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:44 pm

Good post mawkish
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Individual » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:55 pm

Annabel wrote: Indi, does quantity equal qualiiy? :smile:
In scientific journals, yes, because the replicability of an experiment is the basis for its reliability. If a scientific study is reliable, it should generate the same results over and over again, regardless of who does the study and how well-controlled it is. So, an individual study in a scientific journal can be very[/] good and generates amazing results, but if 90% of all re-attempts at the same study, or similar studies, results in a different result, then reliability of the original study is brought into question. Sometimes, this can result in the author of the original study claiming that his work was improperly replicated, recommending methods of controlling the conditions more effectively and, with time, many studies confirm his results. Or, as in the case of homeopathy, study after study continues to undermine it and so, it's regarded as a dubious result.
Annabel wrote: Also: the overwhelming majority of doctors have to pay off expensive high tech machines, and so they have to make as much money as possible. This is only possible if you wave a new patient in every 10 minutes, or sooner, and write out a quick prescription for : antibiotic, antidepressant, cortison, betablocker, painkiller, hallu-killer,etc.

The reason doctors spend a little amount of time with the patient is because of the shortage of doctors, being a very small ratio to the number of patients. Because of the high cost (mental and financial) to go to medical school. So, he has nurses and others that assist doing the minor work for him. He doesn't spend hours investigating because he doesn't need to go: A diagnosis for a known disease is not the same thing as researching a new disease. If the disease or problem is a known one, it's simply a matter of examining the symptoms and looking it up in a book. This can be done in minutes, in many cases, unless there's need for additional tests, like radiology work, biopsies, endoscopy, etc..

Annabel wrote: "Patient gets skin irritations of all sorts only in winter,is completely free of it in summer."

That's a pretty ambiguous description! What's the cause? What type of rash? Where does the rash occur? "In winter," in cold weather or just in winter? What's the prognosis of not getting treatment?

Annabel wrote: My father had tuberculosis as a boy, but completely healed from it.

However, I had Tuberculosis symptoms often , without having the infection...

Is it possible that you could be creating a fictitious sense of illness, or misinterpreting common cold symptoms as "tuberculosis" symptoms?

Annabel wrote: Samul Hahnemann concluded,that people must somehow pass on toxins of past infections to their offsprings, children, and in thisway, certain tendencies run in a family. They get "inherited".
[/quote]
What is a "toxin," physically? Where is it and what does it look like? And what is its mechanism for transmission?

Again, all of this is just pseudoscience...
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Individual » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:57 pm

Annabel wrote: Homeopathy ... runs in the same tracks as acupuncture, Tibetan medicine and Ayurveda, albeit younger..

Do you want to dismiss those as witchcraft as well?
To a large degree, yes. Certain herbs and techniques in Tibetan medicine and Ayurveda may be reliable, but they're of no use until they're confirmed experimentally. With acupuncture, it works but not for the superstitious reasons described.
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Mawkish1983 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:19 pm

In the words of 'goldie lookin chain': "Guns don't kill people, rappers do"

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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Annapurna » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:00 am

Individual wrote:
Annabel wrote: Indi, does quantity equal qualiiy? :smile:
In scientific journals, yes, because the replicability of an experiment is the basis for its reliability. If a scientific study is reliable, it should generate the same results over and over again, regardless of who does the study and how well-controlled it is.
I see that point, Indi, and I am thankful that we have standardized remedies.

However, homeopathic remedies are just as standardized and produced by machines.

The problem with this line of thinking is also, that we forget that human beings are unique. We don't work like robots, and we can't be fixed like cars. Unfortunately......so even if we apply an allopathic remedy to ill persons with the same disease, each will show slightly different reactions, and some will get sick from the remedy, through severe side effects, and some will die from an anaphylactic (allergic) shock or other complications.

Homeopathy however is considered as one of the safest and softest therapies.

You pay the lowest insurance if you practice homeopathy.

There is also a famous study which proved that over 70% of all patients don't die from their disease, but from the sideffects of their allopathic remedies... :jawdrop:

There is no such evidence for homeopathy. :anjali:

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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Jechbi » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:52 pm

That's why some people buy Windex.

In all fairness, I don't think we can say homeopathic medicine kills people. Some folks who believe in it and receive care from homeopathic health practitioners probably experience some benefit. We can say it's just a placebo effect, but the same could be said of conventional medicine in some cases. Just ask your doctor if you don't believe me.

If we want to say that homeopathic medicine kills people, then in all fairness we have to say that conventional medicine kills people, too.
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by BubbaBuddhist » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:26 pm

Scientific studies have shown you can't rely on scientific studies. True. Look it up.

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Mawkish1983
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Mawkish1983 » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:11 pm

Bubbabuddhist wrote:Scientific studies have shown you can't rely on scientific studies.
Might as well give up my PhD now then, huh? <rolls eyes>

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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by Cittasanto » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:25 pm

Bubbabuddhist wrote:Scientific studies have shown you can't rely on scientific studies. True. Look it up.

J
Actually that is false.

Studies have shown that the studies are selective, 1 study won't encompas the whole subject area but a narrow view according to the researchers criteria and preference.

this isn't saying all studies are reliable, or not but it is not correct to say that all are unreliable, and certain studies such as with medicine continue for years after they are allowed to be prescribed and put to general use.
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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by sparrowhawk » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:58 am

Some people seem to have short memory when it is of their convenience...

FDA analysts estimated that Vioxx caused between 88,000 and 139,000 heart attacks, 30 to 40 percent of which were probably fatal, in the five years the drug was on the market.

We must be skeptic, not only of homeopathy, but of conventional medicine itself.
Caveat emptor, always.

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Re: Homeopathic medicine kills people.

Post by BubbaBuddhist » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:07 am

Was going to make a comment about developing a sense of humor; but decided such would be futile because everyone is having such a good time taking themselves so seriously. <insert smiley of your choice>

J
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