Drugs and re-enlightenment?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
xtracorrupt
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by xtracorrupt » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:15 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:In case you aren't trolling, I'll give you advice you should listen to. You are clearly deluded, thinking that you're enlightened. Enlightened people don't feel suffering. You are experiencing suffering because of cannabis. You are on the way to a full blown psychosis, and, if you inform yourself, you'll see that cannabis is to blame. You're not enlightened. Get off cannabis imediatly. You only get tired of cannabis when it hurt you really, really, really bad. I say because I know from experience.

So, before that, get away from cannabis and consult with a psychiatrist as soon as possible.
it appears as if your overreacting to the situation and have made all these assumptions which are unable to be proven

also im not trolling lol
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Caraka
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by Caraka » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:56 am

the drugs experience was completely different after first stage enlightenmen..
I don't know what your first stage of enlightment is, can you go more in detail here?

xtracorrupt
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by xtracorrupt » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:25 pm

Caraka wrote:
the drugs experience was completely different after first stage enlightenmen..
I don't know what your first stage of enlightment is, can you go more in detail here?
loss of

1. identity view
2. doubt
3. ritual attachment

realization that i have no need to form on opinions on things unless i have to obtain something from it, but i need obtain nothing, theres no reason to filter information

also i learned that nothing can be defined because there is nobody to actually define it
Last edited by xtracorrupt on Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
theres is no need for needing

Slava
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by Slava » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:07 pm

It sounds like you have tasted some fruit of your practice. These pleasures are more enjoyable that the mundane pleasures (ie euphoria that comes from using cannabis). As a result, the mundane pleasures are starting to lose their appeal to you. Good job!

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Caraka
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by Caraka » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:37 am

Insight, whatever discrimination we put into it, is not enlightenment. For if it is, then what to call the enlightenment of Buddha or an Arhat?

I must also ask you if you think real insight, is like learning to walk, swim or riding a bicycle or not? I.e. you can ignore, but you do not forget when first learned.

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Moth
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by Moth » Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:41 am

Do not use cannabis. Cannabis causes unarisen unwholesome states to arise, and arisen unwholesome states to increase. I know this from experience. It is not the path. Practice meditation instead.
May you be happy. May you be a peace. May you be free from suffering.
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ground
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by ground » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:05 am

xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment i have tried multiple times the drug cannabis. It induces at least some form of anxiety and my mind has found it unavoidable, during influence of the drug i feel this abnormal anxiety and perhaps( no certainty/insight because recollection is unable of being perfect) i have gone through stages of enlightenment again? does anybody have experience with drugs while having some form of attainment. or any form of losing insight?

i have much confidence in this conclusion because before enlightenment the drug was more enjoyable and pleasing but now it brings undesirable feelings.

after the drugs influence diminishes my insight returns, but during the drug i fear losing enlightenment
If you have become weary of the drug then this is good. Why? Because this provides the possibility of spending life without drugs and mindfully. :sage:

CoreyNiles92
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by CoreyNiles92 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:22 pm

xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment i have tried multiple times the drug cannabis. It induces at least some form of anxiety and my mind has found it unavoidable, during influence of the drug i feel this abnormal anxiety and perhaps( no certainty/insight because recollection is unable of being perfect) i have gone through stages of enlightenment again? does anybody have experience with drugs while having some form of attainment. or any form of losing insight?

i have much confidence in this conclusion because before enlightenment the drug was more enjoyable and pleasing but now it brings undesirable feelings.

after the drugs influence diminishes my insight returns, but during the drug i fear losing enlightenment
You've achieved enlightenment? But why do you break the fifth precept?

danieLion
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by danieLion » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:56 pm

CoreyNiles92 wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment i have tried multiple times the drug cannabis. It induces at least some form of anxiety and my mind has found it unavoidable, during influence of the drug i feel this abnormal anxiety and perhaps( no certainty/insight because recollection is unable of being perfect) i have gone through stages of enlightenment again? does anybody have experience with drugs while having some form of attainment. or any form of losing insight?

i have much confidence in this conclusion because before enlightenment the drug was more enjoyable and pleasing but now it brings undesirable feelings.

after the drugs influence diminishes my insight returns, but during the drug i fear losing enlightenment
You've achieved enlightenment? But why do you break the fifth precept?
Where did the Buddha say using cannabis violates the fifth precept (or that we should think of the precepts in terms of breaking/not-breaking or violating/not-voilating)? They're pragmatic guidelines, not PURITANICAL rules.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by Modus.Ponens » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:19 pm

Even if the Buddha doesn't specificaly say cannabis, you're the one who's using the 5 precepts as a legal system, trying to find loopholes in the precepts. the spirit, as well as the letter of the precept is important to consider. and the spirit of the precept is to not intake substances that leed to heedlessness (and certainly cannabis is one of them)
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

xtracorrupt
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by xtracorrupt » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:06 am

danieLion wrote:
CoreyNiles92 wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote:after obtaining at least one stage of enlightenment i have tried multiple times the drug cannabis. It induces at least some form of anxiety and my mind has found it unavoidable, during influence of the drug i feel this abnormal anxiety and perhaps( no certainty/insight because recollection is unable of being perfect) i have gone through stages of enlightenment again? does anybody have experience with drugs while having some form of attainment. or any form of losing insight?

i have much confidence in this conclusion because before enlightenment the drug was more enjoyable and pleasing but now it brings undesirable feelings.

after the drugs influence diminishes my insight returns, but during the drug i fear losing enlightenment
You've achieved enlightenment? But why do you break the fifth precept?
Where did the Buddha say using cannabis violates the fifth precept (or that we should think of the precepts in terms of breaking/not-breaking or violating/not-voilating)? They're pragmatic guidelines, not PURITANICAL rules.

This is actually a myth, the with percept is only directed towards alcohol, intoxicants generally were later integrated into the percept by the sanga, cannabis is something entirely different but also partially very similar, i will make a whole thread direct towards this because there is so many incredible possibilities.
theres is no need for needing

CoreyNiles92
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by CoreyNiles92 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:44 am

Cannabis is entirely different than alcohol in it's effect?

I wouldn't say entirely personally, I am not trying to attack you, but I'm a recovering drug addict, I know what it means to lie to meet your own means. I know the difference between happiness, and being caught in seeking it.

Do you not find that when you use Cannabis, that you are slightly impaired? That you might be more inclined to make choices you normally would not have while sober? Do you not feel gluttonous at times, seeking more than nourishment, unable to pay mind to the fact that over-indulgence in food should not bring happiness, though with Cannabis, temporarily it does?

Have you never fallen out of mindfulness more easily while high than while sober? Failing to notice things as they pass, and simply being on autopilot?

The total duration of a Cannabis high is 1-4 hours long. Impermanent, though the effects bring a desire to continue using it.

With impermanence in mind, consider the following effects.
The effects include:
mood lift, euphoria - You feel better, artificially after deliberately ingesting a drug.
increased giggling and laughing - You find humor in things you would normally not find so humorous, (*increased*)
relaxation, stress reduction - You find contentment and tranquility where you would normally not
creative, philosophical, abstract, or deep thinking : ideas flow more easily - Your imagination and mind dwell in a place where they could not go while sober. Not to say creativity doesn't exist without Cannabis, the highest forms exist without it, but you might only achieve such obscure creativity from such highs.
increased appreciation or awareness of music; deeper connection to music; increased emotional impact of music - You create a connection that will not last, and brings contentment and joy.
increased awareness of senses (taste, smell, touch, hearing, vision) - The benefits of sense become more mundane while sober, when they are increased to this point from a high.
change in experience of muscle fatigue; pleasant body feel; increase in body/mind connection - Your body/mind connection becomes a different experience, once again something you can experience, but not in the same sense without the drug.
pain relief (headaches, cramps) - Your avoidance of pain naturally builds when you are without it. Aversion from pain is part of the core of what we seek to dismantle, part of the process of leaving suffering behind.
reduced nausea, increased appetite (used medically for this) - You allow yourself to eat more in abundance than you normally would, unless medically advisable, at a point of starvation, or eating disorder. With no medical ailments, this is an inadvisable thing to bring upon yourself.
boring tasks or entertainment can become more interesting or funny - And if life isn't funny enough, you seek to create a new comedian. Does the creation not fade when you are no longer high?


I will not get too far into this, as those are only the positive effects listed by Erowid, that I have experienced myself and know to be true.

But I hope my meaning is there, and you understand where I am coming from.

I do believe the Buddha would consider marijuana an intoxicant, or at least I would hope so.

I'm not entirely sure where the hostility came from, but I believe it has something to do with the desire to continue using marijuana, and the fear that it may not be practical in becoming enlightened. I did not mean to provoke any sort of negative feelings with my comment, I apologize if I did. We are all friends here, I'm simply trying to help.

danieLion
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by danieLion » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:29 am

xtracorrupt wrote: This is actually a myth, the with percept is only directed towards alcohol, intoxicants generally were later integrated into the percept by the sanga, cannabis is something entirely different but also partially very similar, i will make a whole thread direct towards this because there is so many incredible possibilities.
Since when does the "authority" of the sangha trump the authority of the Buddha (and you're abusing the word "myth")?

xtracorrupt
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by xtracorrupt » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:19 pm

danieLion wrote:
xtracorrupt wrote: This is actually a myth, the with percept is only directed towards alcohol, intoxicants generally were later integrated into the percept by the sanga, cannabis is something entirely different but also partially very similar, i will make a whole thread direct towards this because there is so many incredible possibilities.
Since when does the "authority" of the sangha trump the authority of the Buddha (and you're abusing the word "myth")?
exactly , u just basically just proved my point lol, and when i myth I mean its untrue that buddha said he was against intoxicants in the fifth percept who only mentioned alcohol.
theres is no need for needing

xtracorrupt
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Re: Drugs and re-enlightenment?

Post by xtracorrupt » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:32 pm

CoreyNiles92 wrote:Cannabis is entirely different than alcohol in it's effect?

I wouldn't say entirely personally, I am not trying to attack you, but I'm a recovering drug addict, I know what it means to lie to meet your own means. I know the difference between happiness, and being caught in seeking it.

Do you not find that when you use Cannabis, that you are slightly impaired? That you might be more inclined to make choices you normally would not have while sober? Do you not feel gluttonous at times, seeking more than nourishment, unable to pay mind to the fact that over-indulgence in food should not bring happiness, though with Cannabis, temporarily it does?

Have you never fallen out of mindfulness more easily while high than while sober? Failing to notice things as they pass, and simply being on autopilot?


The total duration of a Cannabis high is 1-4 hours long. Impermanent, though the effects bring a desire to continue using it.

With impermanence in mind, consider the following effects.
The effects include:
mood lift, euphoria - You feel better, artificially after deliberately ingesting a drug.
increased giggling and laughing - You find humor in things you would normally not find so humorous, (*increased*)
relaxation, stress reduction - You find contentment and tranquility where you would normally not
creative, philosophical, abstract, or deep thinking : ideas flow more easily - Your imagination and mind dwell in a place where they could not go while sober. Not to say creativity doesn't exist without Cannabis, the highest forms exist without it, but you might only achieve such obscure creativity from such highs.
increased appreciation or awareness of music; deeper connection to music; increased emotional impact of music - You create a connection that will not last, and brings contentment and joy.
increased awareness of senses (taste, smell, touch, hearing, vision) - The benefits of sense become more mundane while sober, when they are increased to this point from a high.
change in experience of muscle fatigue; pleasant body feel; increase in body/mind connection - Your body/mind connection becomes a different experience, once again something you can experience, but not in the same sense without the drug.
pain relief (headaches, cramps) - Your avoidance of pain naturally builds when you are without it. Aversion from pain is part of the core of what we seek to dismantle, part of the process of leaving suffering behind.
reduced nausea, increased appetite (used medically for this) - You allow yourself to eat more in abundance than you normally would, unless medically advisable, at a point of starvation, or eating disorder. With no medical ailments, this is an inadvisable thing to bring upon yourself.
boring tasks or entertainment can become more interesting or funny - And if life isn't funny enough, you seek to create a new comedian. Does the creation not fade when you are no longer high?


I will not get too far into this, as those are only the positive effects listed by Erowid, that I have experienced myself and know to be true.

But I hope my meaning is there, and you understand where I am coming from.

I do believe the Buddha would consider marijuana an intoxicant, or at least I would hope so.

I'm not entirely sure where the hostility came from, but I believe it has something to do with the desire to continue using marijuana, and the fear that it may not be practical in becoming enlightened. I did not mean to provoke any sort of negative feelings with my comment, I apologize if I did. We are all friends here, I'm simply trying to help.
yes but consider that I've become more aware and am trying to keep mind
fulness and harvest the good.
theres is no need for needing

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