New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

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Goob
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by Goob » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:43 pm

Yes, I too would like you to unpack that statement since it's been reapeated quite a few times in this thread now without any elaboration on where exactly Ven. T doesn't do your teacher justice. A couple of sentences of your understanding of the issue or perhaps a quote or two just to go beyond three word insinuations.

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mikenz66
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:35 pm

richard_rca wrote:Yes, I too would like you to unpack that statement since it's been reapeated quite a few times in this thread now without any elaboration on where exactly Ven. T doesn't do your teacher justice. A couple of sentences of your understanding of the issue or perhaps a quote or two just to go beyond three word insinuations.
Hi Richard,

I gave several examples of selective quotation back on the second page of this thread, where looking at the totality of what the people quoted were explaining showed clearly that none of these teachers teaches such a simplistic approach:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 8&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There have been many more by others since then.

There are, of course, some detailed differences, and shifts in terminology and definition, but, as I said here:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 38#p201415" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I don't see much that is different about Ven T when it comes down to nuts and bolts of practice.

Frankly, I generally try to just ignore where teachers (or their students) claim to have a better grasp of things than other teachers, and I've tried to only respond on this thread (or threads quoting other teachers who make similar claims) when I feel that they are misrepresenting their targets for criticism.

:anjali:
Mike

Goob
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by Goob » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:46 pm

Thanks Mike. I was more specifically addressing Tilt though.

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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by Buckwheat » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:16 am

Hi all,

From a vipassana perspective, when you say "bare attention", what does "bare" refer to? ie: bare of what?

Ven Thanissaro seems to imply that bare represents unconditioned, but I have a feeling this is not the intention of vipassana teachers. In Ch 3 and Ch 4, his criticisms do seem overly sharp, which detracts from the beneficial points that are buried in a slew of criticism. But in Ch 5, his analysis seems to be getting back to a more beneficial approach. In the intro, he suggested readers may skip Ch 2-4. Maybe later editions will condense that matter by omitting some of the negativity. I do see his point for wanting to differentiate other teachers' interpretations of mindfulness, but there is a difference between constructive criticism and negativity. His tone seems off in these chapters.

Thanks,
Scott
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

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Dmytro
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by Dmytro » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:24 am

Hi Mike,
mikenz66 wrote:I gave several examples of selective quotation back on the second page of this thread, where looking at the totality of what the people quoted were explaining showed clearly that none of these teachers teaches such a simplistic approach:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 8&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
IMHO, Ven. Thanissaro doesn't even attempt to present the full expositions of other teachers, since his aim is quite different.
Frankly, I generally try to just ignore where teachers (or their students) claim to have a better grasp of things than other teachers, and I've tried to only respond on this thread (or threads quoting other teachers who make similar claims) when I feel that they are misrepresenting their targets for criticism.


Ven. Thanissaro doesn't ever criticise other teachers personally, what he adresses is the unfortunate wording that may be confusing and misguiding.
AFAIK, he greatly respects many of the teachers he quotes.

:anjali:

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mikenz66
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:50 am

Dmytro wrote: Ven. Thanissaro doesn't ever criticise other teachers personally, what he adresses is the unfortunate wording that may be confusing and misguiding.
Well, given what I saw as misleading and selective quoting of other teachers in that book, I will attempt to stick to my policy of simply ignoring his criticisms, and concentrating on the interesting parts of his writing.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by Buckwheat » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:23 pm

Buckwheat wrote:Hi all,

From a vipassana perspective, when you say "bare attention", what does "bare" refer to? ie: bare of what?

Ven Thanissaro seems to imply that bare represents unconditioned, but I have a feeling this is not the intention of vipassana teachers. ...
Hi all,

I just want to refresh this question as it was a serious inquiry. I have an impression of what bare attention is bare of, but only a loose one based on some writings of Bhante G and Bhikkhu Bodhi's quote earlier in this thread. A more direct answer from a vipassana adherent would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I really need to be asking a ten-day Goenka retreat? Maybe, but that will have to wait. A text answer will have to suffice for now.

Thanks,
Scott
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.

befriend
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by befriend » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:23 pm

how does thanissaro bikkhu think we should meditate during daily activities?
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Dmytro
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by Dmytro » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:07 am

Hi Befriend,
befriend wrote:how does thanissaro bikkhu think we should meditate during daily activities?
See his talk "Skill of Restraint": http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... #restraint" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

befriend
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by befriend » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:01 pm

thank you.
Take care of mindfulness and mindfulness will take care of you.

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Annino
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by Annino » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:01 pm

I just ended the lecture of the book.
I think that the book is very interesting, an honest contribution to the Dhamma.
The mindfulness as explained by Thanissaro is illuminating. I recommend the lecture of this book.
Annino
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My Wat is: Wat Thai Dhammaram Waterloo, Belgium

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Zom
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by Zom » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:30 pm

Cool book, but again Ven. Thanissaro with his hidden-fire-eternal-mind idea :candle:

ohnofabrications
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by ohnofabrications » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:05 am

Buckwheat wrote:
Buckwheat wrote:Hi all,

From a vipassana perspective, when you say "bare attention", what does "bare" refer to? ie: bare of what?

Ven Thanissaro seems to imply that bare represents unconditioned, but I have a feeling this is not the intention of vipassana teachers. ...
Hi all,

I just want to refresh this question as it was a serious inquiry. I have an impression of what bare attention is bare of, but only a loose one based on some writings of Bhante G and Bhikkhu Bodhi's quote earlier in this thread. A more direct answer from a vipassana adherent would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I really need to be asking a ten-day Goenka retreat? Maybe, but that will have to wait. A text answer will have to suffice for now.

Thanks,
Scott
It's interesting, i don't think there is actually any such thing as bare vs. appropriate attention. There is the act of observance which carries with it no intention to change, and then there are thoughts and intentions which may or may not come after the act of observance. Bare attention just means attention. It's bare of attempting to change anything, so in other words it is only paying attention and then not moving on to try control what you are paying attention to.

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Zom
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by Zom » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:42 pm

I've read it to the end. One more comment:
Appendix part about "No jhana / right samadhi" is very weak compared to the part about Anapanasati, which is cool 8-)

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Annino
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Re: New Book on Mindfulness by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Post by Annino » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:51 pm

Dear All,
I started the second reading of the book. I need three times canonical mental apprehension (three readings).
I need to develop “skillful instances of attention and consciousness” to understand this book. This is not easy.
I rely on fully ordained Theravada bhikkhū.
My Wat is: Wat Thai Dhammaram Waterloo, Belgium

http://watthaidhammaram.over-blog.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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