How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Hanzze
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:29 am

Dear whynotme,

its not really helpful to squash Buddhas way into a construct out of "science, psychology, different traditions". Its much better to give away one and addopt the new.

There was an occation where a follower of another sect wanted to join the Sangha. Buddha refused and told him to get free of his old ideas first. Its better to empty the way of thoughts from trash and incomplete things first and only after that take the new perceptions which are required to walk the way. Riding on two vehicles at the same time might be hurtful and risky.

You need always support
Image

To give away the old intelectual possession is sometimes the most difficult "letting go".
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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DAWN
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by DAWN » Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:27 am

Just look at you breath.

It's the whool path.
All the rest is for fun.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

whynotme
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by whynotme » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:41 am

Hanzze wrote:Dear whynotme,

its not really helpful to squash Buddhas way into a construct out of "science, psychology, different traditions". Its much better to give away one and addopt the new.

There was an occation where a follower of another sect wanted to join the Sangha. Buddha refused and told him to get free of his old ideas first. Its better to empty the way of thoughts from trash and incomplete things first and only after that take the new perceptions which are required to walk the way. Riding on two vehicles at the same time might be hurtful and risky.

You need always support

To give away the old intelectual possession is sometimes the most difficult "letting go".
Dear Hanzze,

No, I don't mean riding two vehicles at the same time. I don't know how to tell this to you, it is just a risk lowering process. You need skill to solve actual problems, and I just try to translate knowledge to skill

Regards
Please stop following me

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Hanzze
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:57 am

Yes, whynotme, therfore throw the knowledge (the needed will come up by it self) away and go to the field work. I am sure a meditation teacher or a retreat is very helpful aside to fist steps of Dana and Sila.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

whynotme
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by whynotme » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:07 am

Hanzze wrote:Yes, whynotme, therfore throw the knowledge (the needed will come up by it self) away and go to the field work. I am sure a meditation teacher or a retreat is very helpful aside to fist steps of Dana and Sila.
Thank Hanzze,

No I will not rush to the field. It seems you often view others through your imagination. Do you assume that I never go to the field or a retreat? Those things I said based on many years of my experience, I am not that a novice. I had rushed to monasteries, lived there learning in the past then I saw it didn't solve my problem. Now I see I must rely on myself, not others, not teachers, I didn't mean to discredit them, but I don't think doing some specific works like a retreat will solve my problems. In every field, to really solve problems relate to oneself, one must rely on himself, has responsibility for himself even with going forward and backward. Of course some great teachers may help, but maybe my merit isn't enough to meet them or get their guide. But in every case, even with others' guide or not, I must fully rely on myself, there is no easy fast food way for the dhamma. It is my problem, eveyone can help, but only me can solve it.

Regards
Please stop following me

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Hanzze
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by Hanzze » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:54 am

No whynotme I don't reagrd you as a newcomer (even we are all new comer to the Sangha as long as we have not reached the path fruit of stream-enter), totaly not, but we are easliy lose patient.
It is my problem, eveyone can help, but only me can solve it.
No, whynotme. Its your possibility, you can help out your self and solve it simply by your self.

It reminds me on Ajhan Chahs saying: "The only worthy book to read is the heart" So there are times we need to throw away the books and all other intelectual things and simply prove it for our selfs without support of others.

Its a little like trational forest monks. After a while of formal teachings, they are used to be send into to the forset (field, world...). No way out and just a minimum to get confused to be able to see it by one self.

Literary studies are somehow only the dessert after the nurishing meal. We need to be careful that our belly is not overfilled with the dessert or we are so attached to is pleasure (what come along wich intelectuall playing and study) that we even refuse what is actually staple food. How every keep the meal balanced, even the dessert is fine it would make you fat and immovable sooner or later.

How can one look, observe his mind when it is full of thought and busy with intelectuall knowledge? No way.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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ground
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by ground » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:07 am

whynotme wrote:Hi everyone,

Sometimes I feel something arise but I don't know why, e.g I suddenly feel fear, but don't know exactly what to fear.
And what about the arising of "I feel" and the "I don't know"
whynotme wrote: I don't know what is going on in the unconsciouness and I want to know what is going on in the unconsciouness state. How can I gain deep insight view of my own mind? Is jhana or samatha required? Or is there any other method?
What about the arising of questions and "wanting to know"? Is there an "I" different from mind that may gain "deep insight in its own mind"? :sage:

whynotme
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by whynotme » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:27 am

ground wrote:
whynotme wrote:Hi everyone,

Sometimes I feel something arise but I don't know why, e.g I suddenly feel fear, but don't know exactly what to fear.
And what about the arising of "I feel" and the "I don't know"
whynotme wrote: I don't know what is going on in the unconsciouness and I want to know what is going on in the unconsciouness state. How can I gain deep insight view of my own mind? Is jhana or samatha required? Or is there any other method?
What about the arising of questions and "wanting to know"? Is there an "I" different from mind that may gain "deep insight in its own mind"? :sage:
Many thanks,

From my previous experience, I think I knew what you meant. When I had concentrated meditation, when things arose, I just see as things arose, even pain and sadness weren't much a problem. It is like they were just arose, they were not me or related to me, it is all automatic, arise then disappear. Then I felt something like, oh the world is easy, not much can touch my heart any more. But then even with long time practicing it, I realized that I still cant see the root caused it, and it doesn't lead to fully giving up, or lead to fully understand the root, I am not fed up with the world, and I still can't see the dark deep side of me. It just keeps the mind in a temporary peace. So I give up all that practice.

I saw many famous teachers just taught some versions of it, even with a higher level. The problem is that, with this kind of practice, bad things still exist in mind because the root of it isn't destroyed. And as I read their teaching, they don't point out the cause of it, just letting go. I don't see it as the true goal as the Buddha teaches about the destroying of the cause. I am not saying all of above practice is useless, actually it was very helpful but now I try to find the true way, I try to restart my journey from the beginning with all of my previous experience.

I really want to destroy the root of ignorance in me. Scientists may say some parts are basic instincts of the brain, but I believe in the Buddha's teaching that there is a way to destroy it.

Regards
Please stop following me

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ground
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by ground » Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:49 am

whynotme wrote:
ground wrote:
whynotme wrote:Hi everyone,

Sometimes I feel something arise but I don't know why, e.g I suddenly feel fear, but don't know exactly what to fear.
And what about the arising of "I feel" and the "I don't know"
whynotme wrote: I don't know what is going on in the unconsciouness and I want to know what is going on in the unconsciouness state. How can I gain deep insight view of my own mind? Is jhana or samatha required? Or is there any other method?
What about the arising of questions and "wanting to know"? Is there an "I" different from mind that may gain "deep insight in its own mind"? :sage:
Many thanks,

From my previous experience, I think I knew what you meant. When I had concentrated meditation, when things arose, I just see as things arose, even pain and sadness weren't much a problem. It is like they were just arose, they were not me or related to me, it is all automatic, arise then disappear. Then I felt something like, oh the world is easy, not much can touch my heart any more. But then even with long time practicing it, I realized that I still cant see the root caused it, and it doesn't lead to fully giving up, or lead to fully understand the root, I am not fed up with the world, and I still can't see the dark deep side of me. It just keeps the mind in a temporary peace. So I give up all that practice.

I saw many famous teachers just taught some versions of it, even with a higher level. The problem is that, with this kind of practice, bad things still exist in mind because the root of it isn't destroyed. And as I read their teaching, they don't point out the cause of it, just letting go. I don't see it as the true goal as the Buddha teaches about the destroying of the cause. I am not saying all of above practice is useless, actually it was very helpful but now I try to find the true way, I try to restart my journey from the beginning with all of my previous experience.

I really want to destroy the root of ignorance in me. Scientists may say some parts are basic instincts of the brain, but I believe in the Buddha's teaching that there is a way to destroy it.

Regards
Just keep going. It appears as if you cannot do or not do anything else anyway. :sage:

Letting go is really diffcult. It is like dying. Therefore it is called "great death" in other contexts.

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equilibrium
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by equilibrium » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:05 pm

whynotme:
I realized that I still cant see the root caused it, and it doesn't lead to fully giving up, or lead to fully understand the root, I am not fed up with the world, and I still can't see the dark deep side of me.

bad things still exist in mind because the root of it isn't destroyed. And as I read their teaching, they don't point out the cause of it, just letting go. I don't see it as the true goal as the Buddha teaches about the destroying of the cause.

I really want to destroy the root of ignorance in me. Scientists may say some parts are basic instincts of the brain, but I believe in the Buddha's teaching that there is a way to destroy it.
wow.....truly amazed by the above text by whynotme.
You have actually hit the nail on the head, at least you are aware of it and you can actually point it out.....you actually "know" what the obstruction is.....amazing!

You are SO SO close.....providing you are ready, all you need is the final realization in your mind to set yourself free, no one can do this for you, only yourself.

rowyourboat
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by rowyourboat » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:01 pm

Hi Whynotme

There is a practice called mindfulness of the mind (cittanupassana). What it does is to make you more aware of what is going on in your mind by increasing the sensitivity of your mindfulness of the mind. You would typically focus anywhere inbetween the top of your head to around the level of the heart. Emotions and thoughts can be felt all over this region. It is possible to dvelve into the fears for example and feel what you are afraid of. Every emotion has a thought attached to it, telling us what the emotion is about. We often only watch the emotion from a distance or only skim it with our mindfulness- here you can sink right into it- then you can feel the irrational thought which is actually giving rise to that unnecessary emotion. Now if you can also keep challenging this thought with a rational one, each time it arises, you will find that it fades away. This is how you can little by litte wash away the defilements. Also it is said that the seven factors of enlightenment also help in weeding out the most subtle defilements (sabbasava sutta), so dont stop the samatha.

with metta

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by BubbaBuddhist » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:43 pm

On the black canvas we cant see any color,
Where I'm from the Black Velvet Elvis is quite common and an object of religious veneration, along with Dalai Parton. Image

Thank yuh very muuuuuch.

BB
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

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DAWN
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by DAWN » Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:47 pm

BubbaBuddhist wrote:
On the black canvas we cant see any color,
Where I'm from the Black Velvet Elvis is quite common and an object of religious veneration, along with Dalai Parton. Image

Thank yuh very muuuuuch.

BB
:smile:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by rowyourboat » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:18 am

[Ajita:]
"Everywhere flow the streams.[defilements]What is the obstruction for the streams, tell me the restricting of them, by what are they cut off?"

[The Lord:]
"Whatever streams are in the world, it is mindfulness that obstructs them and restricts them, and by wisdom they are cut off."
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

whynotme
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Re: How to see deeply into one's own mind?

Post by whynotme » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:02 am

Many thanks rowyourboat
Please stop following me

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