I understand And I think your quite good with gathering Pali glosses and references. However, once a word is translated into another language, it can be renamed again in that new language without losing meaning. It all depends on the language and its usages. English is a perfect example of a language which one can say the same thing in many different ways.Dmytro wrote:Hi Billymac,
On this forum, and particularly in the Pali terms threads, I appreciate clear arguments with precise Pali glosses and references from people who know at least some Pali.
I don't see how that would not be basis for discussion. Do I think "every single word" came exactly as the buddha said it? No. Do I believe the Buddha's teachings are in the Tipitika? Yes.If you don't believe that the Tipitaka contains the actual words used by the Buddha, then we don't have a basis for meaningful discussion
I believe I'm staying within the guidelines of the thread. But I wont keep posting., and I would ask you not to post in this thread.
I never said you had to agree with me
as the Buddha said:
for the thread“Monk, it’s as if there were a man who had never seen a riddle tree (lit. ‘What is this’ – tree). He would go to another man who had seen one and, on arrival, would say to him, ‘What, my good man, is a riddle tree like?”
“The other would say, ‘A riddle tree is black, my good man, like a burnt stump.’ For at the time he saw it, that’s what the riddle tree was like. (Tena kho pana, bhikkhu, samayena tādisovassa kiṃsuko yathāpi tassa purisassa dassanaṃ)
“Then the first man, dissatisfied with the other man’s answer, went to still another man who had seen a riddle tree and, on arrival, said to him, ‘What, my good man, is a riddle tree like?’
“The other would say, ‘A riddle tree is red, my good man, like a lump of meat.’ For at the time he saw it, that’s what the riddle tree was like.
“Then the first man, dissatisfied with this man’s answer, went to still another man who had seen a riddle tree and, on arrival, said to him, ‘What, my good man, is a riddle tree like?’
“The other would say, ‘A riddle tree is stripped of its bark, my good man, and has burst pods, like an acacia tree.’ For at the time he saw it, that’s what the riddle tree was like.
“Then the first man, dissatisfied with this man’s answer, went to still another man who had seen a riddle tree and, on arrival, said to him, ‘What, my good man, is a riddle tree like?’
“The other would say, ‘A riddle tree has thick foliage, my good man, and gives a dense shade, like a banyan.’ For at the time he saw it, that’s what the riddle tree was like.
“In the same way, monk, however those intelligent men of integrity were focused (yathā yathā adhimuttānaṃ) when their vision became well purified is the way in which they answered.""
Some other definitions of sati:
Sati (f.) [Vedic smṛti: see etym. under sarati2] memory, recognition, consciousness, D i.180; ii.292; Miln 77 — 80; intentness of mind, wakefulness of mind, mindfulness, alertness, lucidity of mind, self — possession, conscience, self — consciousness D i.19; iii.31, 49, 213, 230, 270 sq.; A i.95; Dhs 14; Nd1 7; Tikp 61; VbhA 91; DhsA 121; Miln 37; etc. [link]
and under sarati we find:
Sarati2 [smṛ, cp. smṛti=sati; Dhtp 248 "cintā"; Lat memor, memoria=memory; Gr. me/rimna care, ma/rtu witness, martyr; Goth. maúrnan=E. mourn to care, etc.] to remember D ii.234; Vin i.28; ii.79; J ii.29. …. — Caus. sāreti to remind Vin ii.3 sq., 276; iii.221; sārayamāna, reminding J i.50; ppr. pass. sāriyamāna Vin iii.221; w. acc. D ii.234; w. gen. Dh 324; J vi.496; with foll. fut. II. (in ˚tā) Vinii.125, 4; iii.44, 9, etc. — Caus. II. sarāpeti Vin iii.44; Miln 37 (with double acc.), 79. [link]
One teachers perspective
"I would translate sati as “attentive awareness,” but would quickly point out that that expression is only one of the aspects of sati, “paying attention in order to remember and to recollect, to reflect later” being another aspect. From the perspective of practice, “mental noting” is another aspect of sati, as well."
Another
“In the mirror of Memory” edited by Janet Gyatso (esp. Collette Cox’ article), a wonderful compilation of all kinds of Indian sources on the connection between sati
"…Mindfulness is chosen here not, as in many cases, to avoid confusion with the psychological function of smrti as memory, but precisely for the opposite reason; that is, to indicate at the outset what this chapter will illustrate: that the contexts for the operation of smrti suggested by the term mindfulness actually encompass the psychological functions of memory as they were understood within Indian Buddhism."
may all be well