Is mahayana Buddism?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
whynotme
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Post by whynotme »

Thank you, I asked this bc I am interested in what you said about samatha. But it is against the patimokkha for a monk to declare about his achivement if I ever asked.

Have you achieved jhana?

Regards
suttametta wrote: Whereas, what makes the Pali method faster is that samatha and vipassana are seen to be simultaneous, where samatha is an effortless relaxation and vipassana is directly perceiving the process of perception. There is a super-efficiency with the original thrust of the Buddha's method.
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suttametta
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Post by suttametta »

whynotme wrote:Thank you, I asked this bc I am interested in what you said about samatha. But it is against the patimokkha for a monk to declare about his achivement if I ever asked.

Have you achieved jhana?

Regards
suttametta wrote: Whereas, what makes the Pali method faster is that samatha and vipassana are seen to be simultaneous, where samatha is an effortless relaxation and vipassana is directly perceiving the process of perception. There is a super-efficiency with the original thrust of the Buddha's method.
I think the patimokkha is against declaring himself to be an Arahant if he isn't. I do try the best I can to steer the topic away from myself and to the practice itself. I think jhana is a pretty normal thing that Buddha wanted people to do all the time. The genius of the Buddha's jhana teachings is that jhana proceeds very naturally. Anyone who follows the instructions will achieve jhana very quickly. Probably the 4th jhana and beyond is more difficult, if the gauge is breathing completely stops. That will take mostly everyone a long time to do. But the point where the breath becomes very subtle, as in the 3rd or 4th jhanas isn't that difficult. And from this very accessible level of jhana the three doors can be investigated quite easily, thus leading to the four fruitions in the time similar to the Satipatthana Sutta's declarations.
whynotme
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Post by whynotme »

Thank you, just checked, the patimokkha is against 4 jhanas, stream enterer, one returner, no returner, arahant and many other things

And did you mean you have achieved 3rd or 4th jhana?

Regards
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suttametta
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Post by suttametta »

whynotme wrote:Thank you, just checked, the patimokkha is against 4 jhanas, stream enterer, one returner, no returner, arahant and many other things

And did you mean you have achieved 3rd or 4th jhana?

Regards
The rule is to prevent a trainee from claiming an attainment s/he knows s/he hasn't actually attained. You have to read carefully.
whynotme
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Post by whynotme »

suttametta wrote:
whynotme wrote:Thank you, just checked, the patimokkha is against 4 jhanas, stream enterer, one returner, no returner, arahant and many other things

And did you mean you have achieved 3rd or 4th jhana?

Regards
The rule is to prevent a trainee from claiming an attainment s/he knows s/he hasn't actually attained. You have to read carefully.
No, there are two rules, the one you said is a parajika, while there is another Pācittiyakaṇḍaṃ forbid monks claim what he truly attained.

Regards
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suttametta
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Post by suttametta »

whynotme wrote:
suttametta wrote: The rule is to prevent a trainee from claiming an attainment s/he knows s/he hasn't actually attained. You have to read carefully.
No, there are two rules, the one you said is a parajika, while there is another Pācittiyakaṇḍaṃ forbid monks claim what he truly attained.

Regards
That is regarding an ordained telling an unordained about his/her attaiments. Again, you need to read more carefully.
whynotme
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Post by whynotme »

So, coz you are not ordained, have you achieved 3rd or 4th jhana?

Regards
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suttametta
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Post by suttametta »

:focus:
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Anagarika
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Post by Anagarika »

My two cents: It's a very good practice in general to not question and/or not discuss whether one has attained jhanas, or not, or even if they know one way or the other. To make jhana "achievement" a subject of discussion really leads one into a swamp of trying to explain or experience jhanas as attainments or goals to attainment. As I understand jhana practice, it can be taught by a skilled teacher, but it must be experienced very personally. I've never read of a trusted Bhikkhu discussing his own jhana achievements (perhaps others can cite to such a teaching). I feel that one might be able to discuss the first jhana and explain it on a personal level, but beyond that, the practice of jhanas can be studied, but not discussed as a personal achievement.
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Ron-The-Elder
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Re: Is mahayana Buddism?

Post by Ron-The-Elder »

Ñāṇa wrote:
suttametta wrote:I am aware of that, but there aren't any traditions living that go with it.
Yes, Mahāyāna traditions generally have had to resort to various novel syncretic interpretive strategies to try to make a coherent bodhisattva path out of the vast and diverse body of Indian Mahāyāna texts. Meaningful scriptural authority is problematic in this context. Even moreso in this modern era where textual criticism and historical evidences have established that the Mahāyāna texts have no direct link to the historical Buddha.

However, as far as quality of teachings is concerned, and internal consistency, nothing else comes even close to matching the Pāli Nikāyas. Personally, this is why the Nikāyas are the only corpus of Buddhist discourses that I consider to be authoritative, or am willing to recommend to others without reservation.
I find any discussion of authenticity of tradition or practice to be problematic in that it invariably (at first, or eventually) leads to wrong (non-harmonious) speech. However, your comment regarding The Suttas of The Tipitaka vs. Sutras of The Tripitaka takes a level of expertise, which effort and scope is beyond my current capacity as a student/scholar of Buddha's documented words. :reading:

My experience has been that all such conversations / debates / discussions / arguments leads to nothing but ill will, therefore I have chosen to avoid same.
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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