Porn Free for 90 Days

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Locked
uvm49erfan
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:14 pm

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by uvm49erfan »

whynotme wrote:
uvm49erfan wrote:
manas wrote:There is this sutta, can't remember which at present, where the Buddha is quoted as having said, that before (attainment (or regular practice?) of jhana, he was still able to be tempted by lust, but that once he had jhana, he could no longer be tempted by lust. I have read in a few places that the piti-sukha of the first jhana is more pleasant that any sensual pleasure. So one way to give up porn forever, would be to learn how to obtain the higher forms of pleasure in meditation.
The Buddha has also been quoted as saying that if there was another attachment as strong as lust, or sexual pleasure, one would never be able to achieve enlightenment. Essentially saying that lust, love, sexual desire and so on are the hardest human conditions to overcome.
Yeah, also there are suggestions that stream-enterer and one-returner still have sexual desire. Only no returner and arahant overcome it.

Also there is a story in Jakata in previous life when Bodhisattva attained jhana and superpower and then a princess was sent to him. When saw the girl he immediately lose all of his ability, then he was ready to make killing to achive that girl. Luckily at last he awake from that.

From my experience, manytimes when I have joy and happy with my practice, I really saw sexual desire as empty and meaningless compare to that happiness of giving up. But then it comes back, like in a dream, you become a totally diffrent person.
Sexual desire is what I struggle with most in my practice, as is the case with most people. Putting aside lust for an over all love because of how easily the two overlap.
User avatar
LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by LonesomeYogurt »

Ben wrote:Be careful with Jhana - it can be extraordinarily seductive. And be careful you don't replace craving and relishing one type of sensual pleasure for another.
kind regards

Ben
The Buddha asked himself, upon exiting Jhana,"Why am I afraid of that pleasure which has nothing to do with the five senses nor with unwholesome things? I will not be afraid of that pleasure [of Jhana]!" (MN 36) I don't want to get into a Jhana discussion, but it is very incorrect to say that Jhana is a sensual pleasure in any way comparable to sexual arousal.

I would encourage anyone who has a problem with sexual desire to pursue the supreme bliss of Jhana instead, and not to be afraid!
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
whynotme
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by whynotme »

Sexual desire is what I struggle with most in my practice, as is the case with most people. Putting aside lust for an over all love because of how easily the two overlap
From my knowledge and experience, one reason sexual desire arises because the mind is not happy and not mindful. In the unconscious state it seeks happiness and joy and it turn to the shortest way which is sexual desire.
LonesomeYogurt wrote:
Ben wrote:Be careful with Jhana - it can be extraordinarily seductive. And be careful you don't replace craving and relishing one type of sensual pleasure for another.
kind regards

Ben
The Buddha asked himself, upon exiting Jhana,"Why am I afraid of that pleasure which has nothing to do with the five senses nor with unwholesome things? I will not be afraid of that pleasure [of Jhana]!" (MN 36) I don't want to get into a Jhana discussion, but it is very incorrect to say that Jhana is a sensual pleasure in any way comparable to sexual arousal.

I would encourage anyone who has a problem with sexual desire to pursue the supreme bliss of Jhana instead, and not to be afraid!
It seems that Ben said about some kind of non-jhana meditation experience.

I don't know about jhana but the bliss of giving up only arise when, uhm, giving up. So what is to be afraid of? When one tastes the happiness one will know giving up is better. Because the happiness the mind is so calm so no way craving can arise
Please stop following me
User avatar
Enlightenment0106
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:28 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Enlightenment0106 »

Hormones man. Hormones is the key. You can't get rid of it, but you can take control, and slowly overcome it day by day , the brain is designed to have infinite number of taughts, ideas intentions, you just need to try to make sure every each of it is a good one, it's almost impossible to achieve that, for us laypeople, we don't need to, we just need to try our best. I don't know a lot of Buddhist terms like you all, but I hope this post helped, I am a mahayanist and also study Theravada , but I am a simple man, so I use simple words to express myself:)
Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form--- Heart sutra
whynotme
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by whynotme »

Vlcimba wrote:Hormones man. Hormones is the key. You can't get rid of it, but you can take control, and slowly overcome it day by day , the brain is designed to have infinite number of taughts, ideas intentions, you just need to try to make sure every each of it is a good one, it's almost impossible to achieve that, for us laypeople, we don't need to, we just need to try our best. I don't know a lot of Buddhist terms like you all, but I hope this post helped, I am a mahayanist and also study Theravada , but I am a simple man, so I use simple words to express myself:)
Hell, no. I tell you this, at first I don't know that when I get bored I can have sexual desire to escape the reality, but after realize that, I can easily overcome it when I am bored. The unconscious state of the mind is very important, you must read it yourself.

Hormones is important but it is not the key. If hormones is the key then no one can get rid of it, or arahant is just a drug user. Also the master would teach all of his disciples to get a castration to become an arahant, because it will kill sexual desire forever, but he didn't.

Actually hormones is under the control of the brain, or the mind not vice versa. If you fear the brain will pump alot of adrenaline into your body, but the brain must conceive a fear first. If you brain (mind) conceive a woman is ugly then no hormones could rise sexual desire in you about her. In reality it is not as simple as that because the mind and the hardware interact with each other quite fast and they stimulus each other, but the mind is superior to the hardware.

The Buddha emphasis on the mind because he know what is good what is bad. If you think you are better than him then welcome our new master of the dhamma.

Regards
Please stop following me
User avatar
Enlightenment0106
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:28 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Enlightenment0106 »

whynotme wrote:
Vlcimba wrote:Hormones man. Hormones is the key. You can't get rid of it, but you can take control, and slowly overcome it day by day , the brain is designed to have infinite number of taughts, ideas intentions, you just need to try to make sure every each of it is a good one, it's almost impossible to achieve that, for us laypeople, we don't need to, we just need to try our best. I don't know a lot of Buddhist terms like you all, but I hope this post helped, I am a mahayanist and also study Theravada , but I am a simple man, so I use simple words to express myself:)
Hell, no. I tell you this, at first I don't know that when I get bored I can have sexual desire to escape the reality, but after realize that, I can easily overcome it when I am bored. The unconscious state of the mind is very important, you must read it yourself.

Hormones is important but it is not the key. If hormones is the key then no one can get rid of it, or arahant is just a drug user. Also the master would teach all of his disciples to get a castration to become an arahant, because it will kill sexual desire forever, but he didn't.

Actually hormones is under the control of the brain, or the mind not vice versa. If you fear the brain will pump alot of adrenaline into your body, but the brain must conceive a fear first. If you brain (mind) conceive a woman is ugly then no hormones could rise sexual desire in you about her. In reality it is not as simple as that because the mind and the hardware interact with each other quite fast and they stimulus each other, but the mind is superior to the hardware.

The Buddha emphasis on the mind because he know what is good what is bad. If you think you are better than him then welcome our new master of the dhamma.

Regards
Yeah I agree with ya. Self-control is the key then :D. When i was stopping mastirbation and pprn, I had to remain conscious all day and tell myself not to get too horny. It was tough. But it was worth it. With just abut of perseverance and self control. But it's actually still impossible to completely get rid of lust and sexual feelings, maybe I need to be much more wise to do that, but I don't really care, as a laypeople, we are allowed to have a partner rite :)
Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form--- Heart sutra
whynotme
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by whynotme »

Vlcimba wrote:Yeah I agree with ya. Self-control is the key then :D. When i was stopping mastirbation and pprn, I had to remain conscious all day and tell myself not to get too horny. It was tough. But it was worth it. With just abut of perseverance and self control. But it's actually still impossible to completely get rid of lust and sexual feelings, maybe I need to be much more wise to do that, but I don't really care, as a laypeople, we are allowed to have a partner rite :)
Well, it is very hard to tell, but one of the problem is that because most of us don't really want to get rid of it. I.e, like a king who have his country ruined by his officers, but he only put them to jail several days then release them to the post positions. He want his country to be good but on the other hand don't want to behead his officers coz they are his relatives. So by using his manner, it is very hard to take control over his officers, and so we are, it is very hard for us to take control over an enemy when we don't really want to behead it.

Before enlightenment, bodhisattva known that he still will be controlled by desires when he can't attain some pleasure and joy superior to them. It is a suggestion that if we want to take control over it (sexual desire), we must have ability to access to some pleasure superior to it (jhana).

Regards
Please stop following me
User avatar
Enlightenment0106
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:28 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Enlightenment0106 »

whynotme wrote:
Vlcimba wrote:Yeah I agree with ya. Self-control is the key then :D. When i was stopping mastirbation and pprn, I had to remain conscious all day and tell myself not to get too horny. It was tough. But it was worth it. With just abut of perseverance and self control. But it's actually still impossible to completely get rid of lust and sexual feelings, maybe I need to be much more wise to do that, but I don't really care, as a laypeople, we are allowed to have a partner rite :)
Well, it is very hard to tell, but one of the problem is that because most of us don't really want to get rid of it. I.e, like a king who have his country ruined by his officers, but he only put them to jail several days then release them to the post positions. He want his country to be good but on the other hand don't want to behead his officers coz they are his relatives. So by using his manner, it is very hard to take control over his officers, and so we are, it is very hard for us to take control over an enemy when we don't really want to behead it.

Before enlightenment, bodhisattva known that he still will be controlled by desires when he can't attain some pleasure and joy superior to them. It is a suggestion that if we want to take control over it (sexual desire), we must have ability to access to some pleasure superior to it (jhana).

Regards

The king doesn't want to behead them but can instead jail them for life, or limit their powers so that they aren't strong enough to rebel. I would like to have kids so yeah , it's not about the pleasure , it's about the generations that we can educate , to pass on our Buddhism teachings, so that Buddhism doesnt decline, but it probably will not, as Albert Einstein said Buddhism is going to be the future cosmic religion.
And I love my partner btw :). I guess I have a different view, I don't hope to reach full enlightenment myself, but to help others , to start Buddhism, educate them, spreading Buddhism is the path I choose to walk . :focus: Lust, is not that destructive, but it does interfere with life and dhamaic practices. I guess I just not ready yet. Jhana, is not easy to achieve /practice,for a person who is still struggling to control his addictions, it's just too far a step forward. I may be wrong , correct me :)
Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form--- Heart sutra
whynotme
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by whynotme »

Vlcimba wrote:
whynotme wrote:
Vlcimba wrote:Yeah I agree with ya. Self-control is the key then :D. When i was stopping mastirbation and pprn, I had to remain conscious all day and tell myself not to get too horny. It was tough. But it was worth it. With just abut of perseverance and self control. But it's actually still impossible to completely get rid of lust and sexual feelings, maybe I need to be much more wise to do that, but I don't really care, as a laypeople, we are allowed to have a partner rite :)
Well, it is very hard to tell, but one of the problem is that because most of us don't really want to get rid of it. I.e, like a king who have his country ruined by his officers, but he only put them to jail several days then release them to the post positions. He want his country to be good but on the other hand don't want to behead his officers coz they are his relatives. So by using his manner, it is very hard to take control over his officers, and so we are, it is very hard for us to take control over an enemy when we don't really want to behead it.

Before enlightenment, bodhisattva known that he still will be controlled by desires when he can't attain some pleasure and joy superior to them. It is a suggestion that if we want to take control over it (sexual desire), we must have ability to access to some pleasure superior to it (jhana).

Regards

The king doesn't want to behead them but can instead jail them for life, or limit their powers so that they aren't strong enough to rebel. I would like to have kids so yeah , it's not about the pleasure , it's about the generations that we can educate , to pass on our Buddhism teachings, so that Buddhism doesnt decline, but it probably will not, as Albert Einstein said Buddhism is going to be the future cosmic religion.
And I love my partner btw :). I guess I have a different view, I don't hope to reach full enlightenment myself, but to help others , to start Buddhism, educate them, spreading Buddhism is the path I choose to walk . :focus: Lust, is not that destructive, but it does interfere with life and dhamaic practices. I guess I just not ready yet. Jhana, is not easy to achieve /practice,for a person who is still struggling to control his addictions, it's just too far a step forward. I may be wrong , correct me :)
A thought in my mind, if we all just want to spread Buddhism without enlightenment then we are all like banker who store no one money. Anyway, enlightenment help you do the job better and even saints (as stream enterer and one returner, you still can enjoy sexual pleasure) :tongue:

Regards
Please stop following me
User avatar
Enlightenment0106
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:28 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Enlightenment0106 »

Regards[/quote]

The king doesn't want to behead them but can instead jail them for life, or limit their powers so that they aren't strong enough to rebel. I would like to have kids so yeah , it's not about the pleasure , it's about the generations that we can educate , to pass on our Buddhism teachings, so that Buddhism doesnt decline, but it probably will not, as Albert Einstein said Buddhism is going to be the future cosmic religion.
And I love my partner btw :). I guess I have a different view, I don't hope to reach full enlightenment myself, but to help others , to start Buddhism, educate them, spreading Buddhism is the path I choose to walk . :focus: Lust, is not that destructive, but it does interfere with life and dhamaic practices. I guess I just not ready yet. Jhana, is not easy to achieve /practice,for a person who is still struggling to control his addictions, it's just too far a step forward. I may be wrong , correct me :)[/quote]
A thought in my mind, if we all just want to spread Buddhism without enlightenment then we are all like banker who store no one money. Anyway, enlightenment help you do the job better and even saints (as stream enterer and one returner, you still can enjoy sexual pleasure) :tongue:

Regards[/quote]

Yeah i get you . Its a very materialistic world, and you just need something to draw peoples attention nowadays, experience is one thing, being wise is another. And haha, your so humourous, but your a wise one as well. well, i guess that your rite, i still need to reach a certain kind of level before i can start spreading it, as a lot of peopel end up as a bad tug nowadays. The buddha told us that we should not beleive in anything, and a person can reach the nirvana state of mind without even reading a single scripture iun his life, but practices dhamma and buddhist teachings along the way without knowing it, they are people like that, and i know a few of them too.
Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form--- Heart sutra
whynotme
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:52 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by whynotme »

Vlcimba wrote:The buddha told us that we should not beleive in anything, and a person can reach the nirvana state of mind without even reading a single scripture iun his life, but practices dhamma and buddhist teachings along the way without knowing it, they are people like that, and i know a few of them too.
I don't know what you meant by reaching nirvana without reading a scripture, coz dhamma can be taught orally. But if you meant one can reach nirvana without the buddha's teaching then it meant that one actually found the way himself. No difference in Mahayana or Therevada, there are only two type of person found the way himself, sammasambuddha (perfect Buddha like Gotama) and paccekabuddha (silent Buddha, which our known history doesn't has any)

Those found the way themselves, the only difference is that sammasambuddhas teach dhamma to others while paccekabuddha don't do it. All others can't found the way themselves, but must find it under the teaching of a sammasam buddha. If you say someone can practice teaching without knowing it, you are against Buddhism, against Therevada and Mahayana, or that person you refered to is a pacceka buddha (very unlikely when the teaching of current sammasam buddha still exist)

Regards.
Please stop following me
User avatar
Enlightenment0106
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:28 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Enlightenment0106 »

whynotme wrote:
Vlcimba wrote:The buddha told us that we should not beleive in anything, and a person can reach the nirvana state of mind without even reading a single scripture iun his life, but practices dhamma and buddhist teachings along the way without knowing it, they are people like that, and i know a few of them too.
I don't know what you meant by reaching nirvana without reading a scripture, coz dhamma can be taught orally. But if you meant one can reach nirvana without the buddha's teaching then it meant that one actually found the way himself. No difference in Mahayana or Therevada, there are only two type of person found the way himself, sammasambuddha (perfect Buddha like Gotama) and paccekabuddha (silent Buddha, which our known history doesn't has any)

Those found the way themselves, the only difference is that sammasambuddhas teach dhamma to others while paccekabuddha don't do it. All others can't found the way themselves, but must find it under the teaching of a sammasam buddha. If you say someone can practice teaching without knowing it, you are against Buddhism, against Therevada and Mahayana, or that person you refered to is a pacceka buddha (very unlikely when the teaching of current sammasam buddha still exist)

Regards.
Yes I meant that one van actually reach nirvana without reading any teachings, but I do not go against the buddhas teaching. Most of us need Buddhas teaching and a good teacher to guide us to the right path, but the point is, I am just saying that one cannot reach nirvana or be a true Buddhist just by reading / understanding the teachings , they need to try to apply it to daily life, and the Buddha also said that if the teaching is not that practical in our world today, we can adapt by changing it a bit, as long as it doesn't change the main reason of it. One simple example is the Tibetan monks. They consume meat because they need it as the temperature there is awfully cold.
Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form--- Heart sutra
dhammapal
Posts: 2636
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:23 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhammapal »

manas wrote:There is this sutta, can't remember which at present, where the Buddha is quoted as having said, that before (attainment (or regular practice?) of jhana, he was still able to be tempted by lust, but that once he had jhana, he could no longer be tempted by lust. I have read in a few places that the piti-sukha of the first jhana is more pleasant that any sensual pleasure. So one way to give up porn forever, would be to learn how to obtain the higher forms of pleasure in meditation.
Majjhima 14 transl. Thanissaro wrote:"Even though a disciple of the noble ones has clearly seen as it actually is with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, still — if he has not attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that[4] — he can be tempted by sensuality. But when he has clearly seen as it actually is with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, and he has attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, he cannot be tempted by sensuality.

"I myself, before my Awakening, when I was still an unawakened bodhisatta, saw as it actually was with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, but as long as I had not attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, I did not claim that I could not be tempted by sensuality. But when I saw as it actually was with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, and I had attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, that was when I claimed that I could not be tempted by sensuality.
From: Cula-dukkhakkhandha Sutta: The Lesser Mass of Stress
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
With metta / dhammapal.
User avatar
Enlightenment0106
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:28 am

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Enlightenment0106 »

dhammapal wrote:
manas wrote:There is this sutta, can't remember which at present, where the Buddha is quoted as having said, that before (attainment (or regular practice?) of jhana, he was still able to be tempted by lust, but that once he had jhana, he could no longer be tempted by lust. I have read in a few places that the piti-sukha of the first jhana is more pleasant that any sensual pleasure. So one way to give up porn forever, would be to learn how to obtain the higher forms of pleasure in meditation.
Majjhima 14 transl. Thanissaro wrote:"Even though a disciple of the noble ones has clearly seen as it actually is with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, still — if he has not attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that[4] — he can be tempted by sensuality. But when he has clearly seen as it actually is with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, and he has attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, he cannot be tempted by sensuality.

"I myself, before my Awakening, when I was still an unawakened bodhisatta, saw as it actually was with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, but as long as I had not attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, I did not claim that I could not be tempted by sensuality. But when I saw as it actually was with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, and I had attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, that was when I claimed that I could not be tempted by sensuality.
From: Cula-dukkhakkhandha Sutta: The Lesser Mass of Stress
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
With metta / dhammapal.

Hey dude! Have you taken control of your addiction yet? It's been awhile

Ps: I taught it was you dhamma pal. Name looked too familiar. Dhamma newb , I meant
Last edited by Enlightenment0106 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Form is emptiness. Emptiness is form--- Heart sutra
User avatar
manas
Posts: 2678
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by manas »

dhammapal wrote:
manas wrote:There is this sutta, can't remember which at present, where the Buddha is quoted as having said, that before (attainment (or regular practice?) of jhana, he was still able to be tempted by lust, but that once he had jhana, he could no longer be tempted by lust. I have read in a few places that the piti-sukha of the first jhana is more pleasant that any sensual pleasure. So one way to give up porn forever, would be to learn how to obtain the higher forms of pleasure in meditation.
Majjhima 14 transl. Thanissaro wrote:"Even though a disciple of the noble ones has clearly seen as it actually is with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, still — if he has not attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that[4] — he can be tempted by sensuality. But when he has clearly seen as it actually is with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, and he has attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, he cannot be tempted by sensuality.

"I myself, before my Awakening, when I was still an unawakened bodhisatta, saw as it actually was with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, but as long as I had not attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, I did not claim that I could not be tempted by sensuality. But when I saw as it actually was with right discernment that sensuality is of much stress, much despair, & greater drawbacks, and I had attained a rapture & pleasure apart from sensuality, apart from unskillful mental qualities, or something more peaceful than that, that was when I claimed that I could not be tempted by sensuality.
From: Cula-dukkhakkhandha Sutta: The Lesser Mass of Stress
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
With metta / dhammapal.
Thanks dhammapal, yes that was exactly the sutta I had in mind! Now, I just gotta practice it...

metta,
manas
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
Locked