Looking for ordination

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
User avatar
Sokehi
Posts: 405
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:27 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by Sokehi » Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:12 am

pilgrim wrote:Putting of the merits of the tradition aside for the moment, my perception is that the Thai Forest traditions have a better infrastructure for the long term support of western monastics. I observe that western monks who leave the Burmese monasteries (either Mahasi or Pa auk) tend to wander on their own through various monasteries and have difficulty in "finding a home" or supportive community. This may add greater weight to thoughts of disrobing. Non-Burmese Asians who trained in the Pa-Auk traditions are beginning to form a loose affiliation of monasteries in Sri Lanka, Malaysia and Taiwan but these may not be acessible to westerners because of language and visa issues. Do others share this perception?
Indeed, I have the same feeling about it.

But disrobing ... I think it might be different for every "disrober", what brought or forced him to this conclusion. But I guess generally speaking it might be easier for the interested practitioner and his family if one ordains as close as possible to them. The can meet him, see his practice and maybe/eventually gain more benefit out of this close contact. It's good to show ones own family some dhamma, and I think it's good to not go to far away from them. This in return can be supportive for the ordained as well. But just gueswork out of my own experiences.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

User avatar
Ytrog
Posts: 693
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:50 pm
Location: The Netherlands, near Arnhem
Contact:

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by Ytrog » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:41 am

Sokehi wrote:
Indeed, I have the same feeling about it.

But disrobing ... I think it might be different for every "disrober", what brought or forced him to this conclusion. But I guess generally speaking it might be easier for the interested practitioner and his family if one ordains as close as possible to them. The can meet him, see his practice and maybe/eventually gain more benefit out of this close contact. It's good to show ones own family some dhamma, and I think it's good to not go to far away from them. This in return can be supportive for the ordained as well. But just gueswork out of my own experiences.
That is exactly why I would recommend the UK instead of Asia if you want to follow the Thai Forest Tradition and are from Europe.
Suffering is asking from life what it can never give you.
mindfulness, bliss and beyond (page 8) wrote:Do not linger on the past. Do not keep carrying around coffins full of dead moments
If you see any unskillful speech (or other action) from me let me know, so I can learn from it.

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2985
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by Goofaholix » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:08 am

Sokehi wrote:But I guess generally speaking it might be easier for the interested practitioner and his family if one ordains as close as possible to them. The can meet him, see his practice and maybe/eventually gain more benefit out of this close contact. It's good to show ones own family some dhamma, and I think it's good to not go to far away from them. This in return can be supportive for the ordained as well. But just gueswork out of my own experiences.
I think for a junior monk being close to home would be more a source of distraction and restlessness. Once you've been a monk a few years I'd think you'd be better equipped to share the dhamma with family and friends, that would be a better time to be closer to home.
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by reflection » Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:10 pm

Thanks for the replies.

I think one should ordain with a teacher they can learn from, be inspired by and can agree with the dhamma they teach. If that teacher happens to be far away, so beit. Also, I want to find a teacher who I think is as close to enlightenment as possible. If (s)he's far away, well, than I'll go to there anyway.

:anjali:

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20160
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by retrofuturist » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:54 pm

Greetings Reflection,

As for near or far, there's many factors involved.

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by reflection » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:38 am

You may. I'm 25 now.

:anjali:

starter
Posts: 876
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:56 pm

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by starter » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:15 am

reflection wrote:Thanks for the replies.

I think one should ordain with a teacher they can learn from, be inspired by and can agree with the dhamma they teach. If that teacher happens to be far away, so beit. Also, I want to find a teacher who I think is as close to enlightenment as possible. If (s)he's far away, well, than I'll go to there anyway.

:anjali:
One year ago I was in a similar "boat" like you. Fortunately I found out:

"Monks, be islands (lights) unto yourselves,be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island (light) and a refuge to you, having no other." (SN22.43)

"... For those who — now or after I am gone — remain with their self as an island, their self as their refuge, without anything else as a refuge, with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as their refuge, without anything else as a refuge, they will be the highest of the monks who desire training." (SN 47.13)

Starter
:anjali:

User avatar
James the Giant
Posts: 792
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by James the Giant » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:46 am

reflection wrote: One year ago I was in a similar "boat" like you. Fortunately I found out:

"Monks, be islands (lights) unto yourselves,be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island (light) and a refuge to you, having no other." (SN22.43)

"... For those who — now or after I am gone — remain with their self as an island, their self as their refuge, without anything else as a refuge, with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as their refuge, without anything else as a refuge, they will be the highest of the monks who desire training." (SN 47.13)
You are misinterpreting the quotes if you think that means going it alone. Sure, have no other refuge but the dhamma. But who is going to train you in the dhamma ("monks who desire training."), help you interpret it, to guide you and make sure you are not going the wrong way, or wasting your time up blind alleys. A teacher who has experience and attainment.
Last edited by James the Giant on Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.
SN 9.11

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20160
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:48 am

Greetings,

I agree with Starter that the Dhamma is a refuge, but also with James that the Sangha is too.

Just to finish off the all important trilogy, don't forget refuge in the Buddha!

:buddha2:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Alobha
Posts: 566
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:27 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by Alobha » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:08 pm

I feel you will do great as a monk, reflection.

User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by reflection » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:47 pm

Alobha wrote:I feel you will do great as a monk, reflection.
Thank you! I have the feeling as well, but we'll see ! :anjali:

User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Looking for ordination

Post by reflection » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:53 pm

starter wrote:
reflection wrote:Thanks for the replies.

I think one should ordain with a teacher they can learn from, be inspired by and can agree with the dhamma they teach. If that teacher happens to be far away, so beit. Also, I want to find a teacher who I think is as close to enlightenment as possible. If (s)he's far away, well, than I'll go to there anyway.

:anjali:
One year ago I was in a similar "boat" like you. Fortunately I found out:

"Monks, be islands (lights) unto yourselves,be your own refuge, having no other; let the Dhamma be an island (light) and a refuge to you, having no other." (SN22.43)

"... For those who — now or after I am gone — remain with their self as an island, their self as their refuge, without anything else as a refuge, with the Dhamma as an island, the Dhamma as their refuge, without anything else as a refuge, they will be the highest of the monks who desire training." (SN 47.13)

Starter
:anjali:
Thank you.

But I think even those who have their self and the Dhamma as an island will do best in a community of likeminded people. Although I will miss my family, which is one thing to consider of course, I think it is important for the general benefit of the dhamma, the world and myself to train in the best possible environment. For me this community will not be very close by anyway, so if it happens to be far overseas, so be it.

:anjali:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests