I cannot engage in your specious, straw-man arguments. But for what it is worth ...Ron-The-Elder wrote:Cittasanto et al: Seems like we are not listening/understanding each other. Let me try one more analogy: If a story appeared in a well read newspaper, or on the evening news that a mouse had eaten a cow, would you find the story credible? No! Such a story would be incredible, unbelievable, beyond the realm of reasonableness! Now if I told you that the author of The Four Noble Truths, the doctrine, which explains how to end dukkha in all of its various forms advised to behave in a manner which produced horrific suffering, stress and dissatisfaction, would your believe me, would you find such a story credible, believable?
If your answer is yes, then in that way you and I are different. Ron
Unlike you, then I do not believe everything that is written in the newspapers, nor in the suttas.
Not accepting (or just leaving alone) some statements of the Buddha as incongruent or lacking relevance is your mahāpadesa privilege, I suppose. But I would suggest just leaving these alone, as you may be perceived as rather silly when making claims on what was or was not said by another so far removed from corroborative evidence.
With reference to the allowances given in the vinaya for bhikkhus and bhikkhunis as to what foods may be consumed (not all foods offered and received on piṇḍapāta may be consumed due to the ignorance of the doner), the reasons were – and still are – culturally evident.
With reference to meat as representing the violence which delivered it, it still does not transfer the intention of such to me. This is where the clause about hearing the killing or rumor of it intended for the recipient comes in.
And as far as meat representing a sentient being, it does so no more or less than my leather sandals.
A suggestion I’m sure I have posted before in this thread is this:
- Perhaps it is the laity that could lead the way. If they followed these precepts of right livelihood, bhikkhus would be vegetarian by default.
Pañcimā bhikkhave, vaṇijjā upāsakena akaraṇīyā. Katamā pañca:
Satthavaṇijjā, sattavaṇijjā, maṃsavaṇijjā, majjavaṇijjā, visavaṇijjā.
Imā kho bhikkhave, pañca vaṇijjā upāsakena akaraṇīyāti.
“Bhikkhus, a lay follower should not engage in five types of business. Which five?
Business in weapons, business in human beings, business in meat, business in intoxicants, and business in poison.
"These are the five types of business that a lay follower should not engage in.”
– Vaṇijja Sutta AN.5.177