Never used the word "bad", nor did I imply it.tiltbillings wrote:Except you are willing to classify as something bad. This is simply odd, if not down right weird.You'll note that I try to avoid telling others what religion actually is - and repeatedly suggest that we ought to find out what it is through rigorous scrutiny, preferably before we indulge in it.
Buddhism and religion
- pink_trike
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Re: Buddhism and religion
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Re: Buddhism and religion
Sorry, my misunderstanding.pink_trike wrote:You'll note that I try to avoid telling others what religion actually is - and repeatedly suggest that we ought to find out what it is through rigorous scrutiny, preferably before we indulge in it.
In my opinion, religion actually is a social construct, but I see there's been some discussion here about the human "religious impulse" that each person individually experiences, perhaps independenty of any institution. That's a different matter, in my opinion.
In my opinion, that impulse is the instinctual recognition that there's something more than just this limited "self" that we seem to be. Everybody at some point in their life probably has that existential angst. That, coupled with glimpses of something that might seem to lie "beyond," fuel personal religious pursuits, in my opinion.
Organized religions provide a framework for exploring that impulse.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Buddhism and religion
Probably for no more reason than we should take your word for that your bowing to a Buddha astatue and a globe are not part of the religious impulse and more than your sitting in meditation in hopes ending pain has not a thing to do with it.pink_trike wrote: But why would we want to take their word for it?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- pink_trike
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- Contact:
Re: Buddhism and religion
And has a remarkable talent for exploiting that impulse.Jechbi wrote:pink_trike wrote:
Organized religions provide a framework for exploring that impulse.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Buddhism and religion
And channelling it, and, of course, it all that can go horribly wrong, but it can also go quite right. None of this is black and white.Jechbi wrote:Sorry, my misunderstanding.pink_trike wrote:You'll note that I try to avoid telling others what religion actually is - and repeatedly suggest that we ought to find out what it is through rigorous scrutiny, preferably before we indulge in it.
In my opinion, religion actually is a social construct, but I see there's been some discussion here about the human "religious impulse" that each person individually experiences, perhaps independenty of any institution. That's a different matter, in my opinion.
In my opinion, that impulse is the instinctual recognition that there's something more than just this limited "self" that we seem to be. Everybody at some point in their life probably has that existential angst. That, coupled with glimpses of something that might seem to lie "beyond," fuel personal religious pursuits, in my opinion.
Organized religions provide a framework for exploring that impulse.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27858
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Buddhism and religion
Greetings Pink,
Metta,
Retro.
Didn't you just write "Let religion die away" a few posts ago?pink_trike wrote:Never used the word "bad", nor did I imply it.tiltbillings wrote:Except you are willing to classify as something bad. This is simply odd, if not down right weird.You'll note that I try to avoid telling others what religion actually is - and repeatedly suggest that we ought to find out what it is through rigorous scrutiny, preferably before we indulge in it.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Buddhism and religion
No, you just talked about body counts, exploitation, ansd needing to get rid of it. Who, then, needs to use the word bad?pink_trike wrote:Never used the word "bad", nor did I imply it.tiltbillings wrote:Except you are willing to classify as something bad. This is simply odd, if not down right weird.You'll note that I try to avoid telling others what religion actually is - and repeatedly suggest that we ought to find out what it is through rigorous scrutiny, preferably before we indulge in it.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Buddhism and religion
True.tiltbillings wrote: And channelling it, and, of course, it all that can go horribly wrong, but it can also go quite right. None of this is black and white.
In some cases, true. Not in all cases. Some forms of Buddhism, for example, are an exception. (And that's not the only exception.)pink_trike wrote:And has a remarkable talent for exploiting that impulse.Jechbi wrote:Organized religions provide a framework for exploring that impulse.
edit: to fix quote box
Last edited by Jechbi on Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Buddhism and religion
Sure, but not until the other shore is reached. There is a reason the Buddha gave dukkha as the First Noble Truth; it is the engine that drives the religious impulse.PT: Letting go of this [religious] impulse may be exactly what the good doctor, Siddhārtha Gautama, recommended.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- pink_trike
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- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
- Contact:
Re: Buddhism and religion
Yes, but why assume that means "bad". There are many other reasons to let it die away...antiquated, inadequate, hinderance, delusion, lacking in benefit, superfluous - none of these mean "bad".retrofuturist wrote:
Didn't you just write "Let religion die away" a few posts ago?
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
- pink_trike
- Posts: 1130
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
- Contact:
Re: Buddhism and religion
Imo, you're conflating the teachings of Siddhārtha Gautama with this religious impulse of which we know very little about.tiltbillings wrote:Sure, but not until the other shore is reached.PT: Letting go of this [religious] impulse may be exactly what the good doctor, Siddhārtha Gautama, recommended.
There is a reason the Buddha gave dukkha as the First Noble Truth; it is the engine that drives the religious impulse.
Dukkha only drives the religious impulse for people who choose to indulge in the religious impulse. Why not set aside the impulse and get on with the work?
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Re: Buddhism and religion
You're splitting hairs.pink_trike wrote:Yes, but why assume that means "bad". There are many other reasons to let it die away...antiquated, inadequate, hinderance, delusion, lacking in benefit, superfluous - none of these mean "bad".
I still don't understand why you are applying this interpretation to all religions, bar none.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
Re: Buddhism and religion
Great, if that works for you. For other people, other approaches might be more productive at this particular stage. Why force everyone into the same pigeonhole?pink_trike wrote:Why not set aside the impulse and get on with the work?
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Buddhism and religion
He said, swatting back a perceived fast ball.pink_trike wrote:Imo, you're conflating the teachings of Siddhārtha Gautama with this religious impulse of which we know very little about.tiltbillings wrote:Sure, but not until the other shore is reached.PT: Letting go of this [religious] impulse may be exactly what the good doctor, Siddhārtha Gautama, recommended.
There is a reason the Buddha gave dukkha as the First Noble Truth; it is the engine that drives the religious impulse.
Now for only knowing very little about the religious impulse, you seem to be making some assumptions about what it actually is.Dukkha only drives the religious impulse for people who choose to indulge in the religious impulse. Why not set aside the impulse and get on with the work?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- pink_trike
- Posts: 1130
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:29 am
- Contact:
Re: Buddhism and religion
Please point to where I advocated "force". This is getting a bit silly.Jechbi wrote:Great, if that works for you. For other people, other approaches might be more productive at this particular stage. Why force everyone into the same pigeonhole?pink_trike wrote:Why not set aside the impulse and get on with the work?
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss
- Dawa Gyaltsen
---
Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.