Although I find many of your posts annoying,
Many people seem to
I'm glad to have you here with us. Good for the mix
Thanks and same to you
Just don't assume that others get upset. I'm not upset with you. I just think in this instance your rhetoric has been shocking. You might not fully realize how your words come across.
My ability to express certain contentious points via the written word is not that great sadly and i am sorry for any offence that i caused.
I think I'm capable of making this distinction. In fact on a different thread I discussed this very distinction. I also am aware that throughout history there have been examples of objectifying religions and viewpoints as evil, thus separating those religions and viewpoints from the individuals who hold them. That's not really possible. There's no such thing as an object known as a "religion" that stands apart as a separate reality from the people who have adopted it. Yes, I agree it's possible to look at "religion" dispassionately and examine it in theory. But that hasn't seemed to have been happening here. Rather, some members have been making broad statements about how "religious people" tend to be, etc.
I dont want to go back into discussing religion again as it seems to be doing more harm than good atm. If you would like me to clarify any points i have made about religion or any thing i have said then feel free to PM me and i will be happy to answer you
. I would like to note though that i did state that im not ridiculing or attacking people but religious thought itself, the institution of religion (of any kind) itself
In the other thread, it appeared to me that you were calling for broad societal change and an eventual abolition of religion. To me that sounds like one step away from another Holocaust. That's just my reaction.
Never abolition. I dont want to force people to leave religion or suppress it via law or intimidation or ridicule. When i say "i want to see religion go" etc i envision it happening via people willfully choosing to leave religion and via religions eventual fading away into history. What I am for is the removal of the social taboo that currently exists in society of not questioning, critcising or debating religion to much or in to much detail. Religion makes massive claims about the universe, it has a strong hold over a great number of human minds on this planet and it greatly influences how those people live and what acts they take (some of them with the "finger on the button"). Any instiution (of any creed or sect) that wields such an enormous amount of power over such a great number of people needs to be heavily debated, criticised and put under scrutiny a lot more than it has done. Since religion currently occupies a space in socitiey where its almost immune from all critcisms in the public sphere, because of that social taboo, this hasnt been done and i feel this is a dangerous situation
We dont do the same for other beliefs such as political ones. When a person proclaims they are a communist then they are quite rightly pressed by others in their view, this is what i feel needs to happen with religion. Another example is if someone states that they really believe that King Henry VIII ruled japan we dont sit back and leave it just because he really believes it, instead we question and criticise it. Same goes for in any instance of biology, physics, maths or literature. If some one states they really believe something that has no proof or doesnt seem plausible in these areas then we press them on it, the only subject where we dont do this is religion and religious beliefs.
Now i dont agree with engaing in childish name calling of religion or of the religious themselves neither do i agree in attacking them for no reason. What needs to happen is more room needs to be made for more mature, rational and logical in depth debate of religious thought much like what Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens have been doing (although i will concede that Hitchens is a tiny
I will bring in the Osiris similie again, no one now believes in Osiris (for the most part i know some small numbers still do) and think he probably doesnt and never has existed. We know think that any religious activity that involves him is irrational, superstitious and not needed any more. This has been reached through rational and logical thought and not through hate or intolerance on anybodies part. I dont see why this cant be done with the modern religions that we have ( i realize this involves a religion that has a theistic god but its just an example)
My personal view on religion is that its supersitious redundant myth that causes more bad than good. However despite this view i am not intolerant of religion or the religious. If people want to be xtian, muslim, hindu or wiccan then thats fine with me. All im saying is that if they do profess a belief then it should be ok for others to press them in their belief in the same way one would with politics etc as long as its done in a mature and non-cruel way, which is the same that we expect from people criticising political beliefs etc
Just to conclude i dont hate religions or the religious i just think we need, even more so in the troubles of our modern times, a more in deepth and bigger critcism of religion than we have had