If there are the two monks: One a sotapanna and one deluded into thinking he is one, and you give them both a sneer saying they may be wrong, the genuine sotapanna would not care and the other may (hopefully) get the message.khlawng wrote:Brother, you are so angsty. Maybe you should come from the point of 2 monks standing side by side, one is false, how do you pay homage to the correct one? By paying homage to both, you are guaranteed to pay homage to the correct one.tiltbillings wrote:Your "taking leave" is not surprising. I hope you take time on your "leave" to ask questions, listen and learn.divine wrote:I think I'll leave it at this. Take care, guys!
Nevertheless, in the homage to the Sangha:
Supatipanno Bhagavato savaka sangho
Yadidam cattari purisa yugani Attha purissa puggala
(The Four pairs of persons, the Eight Kinds of Individuals)
(is worthy of gifts, worthy of hospitality..offerings..revenerential salutation).
What are the four pair of persons? Eight kinds of individuals?
The person on the path of stream entry and the stream enterer
The person on the path of once returner and the once returner.
The person on the path of non-returner and the non-returner.
The person on the path of arahantship and the arahant.
For someone who is new to the path, barely having any meditation experience, it is highly unlikely to be a sotapanna. The chance of winning the lottery is bigger. And if also the signs are missing, I'd call it a virtual impossibility. And so, trying to get such people to see their experience in another perspective is worth the risk.
Even sotapannas are best to see their experience just as an experience, something that's actually worthless. And pointless to go claiming around. So even for them a sneer may be helpful.
We can bow to and respect everybody who claims to be a sotapanna but we can ask ourselves if we are actually helping anyone with that. We could just as well be strengthening their delusion.