should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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daverupa
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by daverupa »

Mr Man wrote:What is a Colt 45 designed for?
Putting a powerful shot downrange. Whether there's a person there or a tin cup is up to the user, not the gun's design paradigm.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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tiltbillings
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by tiltbillings »

Mr Man wrote:A kitchen knife is designed for use in the kitchen. What is a Colt 45 designed for? I wonder if inanimate objects have a destiny?
So, every Colt .45 is going to be used for killing people, and every gun owner is a likely -- and according to some here, an inveitable -- killer.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Truth_Seeker1989
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by Truth_Seeker1989 »

David N. Snyder wrote:
jason c wrote:
if i weild a gun at the first sign of trouble i most certainly will be attracting trouble.
That would be a complete misuse, improper use of a firearm, even in self-defense. All gun safety classes that I know of, teach that in self-defense a gun can only be used for the protection of your life or the life of another. It is not used to intimidate another or to settle a score or in response to an insult, etc. For example, if someone comes at you with fists and you are younger, stronger, bigger, you do not respond with a gun, even though the person is coming at you to assault you. If someone is pounding on your car with a club or bat or even a machete, you don't pull your gun (if you have one); you just drive away. The classes teach avoidance of these situations, not confrontation. And in spite of the high rate of gun ownership in the U.S., the misuse rarely occurs among those who legally obtained firearms, possibly due to the beneficial safety courses.
There you go! Perfect!
Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).
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Mr Man
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by Mr Man »

tiltbillings wrote:
Mr Man wrote:A kitchen knife is designed for use in the kitchen. What is a Colt 45 designed for? I wonder if inanimate objects have a destiny?
So, every Colt .45 is going to be used for killing people, and every gun owner is a likely -- and according to some here, an inveitable -- killer.
No not every colt is going to be used to kill but that is what it is designed to do. Killing is a gun's intention, That is why guns came to be.

Why do people like guns? I'm sure it is to do with power.
daverupa
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by daverupa »

Mr Man wrote:Killing is a gun's intention
Inanimate objects do not express intent.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Mr Man
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by Mr Man »

daverupa wrote:
Inanimate objects do not express intent.
Yes I know that. It was just a way of talking (see previous post: "I wonder if inanimate objects have a destiny?"). How about purpose?
Last edited by Mr Man on Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Truth_Seeker1989
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by Truth_Seeker1989 »

Mr Man wrote:
daverupa wrote:
Inanimate objects do not express intent.
Yes I know that. It was just a way of talking. How about purpose?
The purpose of a gun, to a 'commoner', is self defense.
Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).
jason c
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by jason c »

SDC wrote:
jason c wrote:it would not be my fault, if someone else harmed a member of my family. and it would not be my fault if i could not prevent this from happening.
But would you do what you could to protect them? You wouldn't just sit back and let it happen? I doubt this is what you mean.

You wouldn't sacrifice yourself for another?
in a life threatening situation you will simply act, there will be no time for thinking. if i see someone harming another it is my duty to intervene, but it must be done with a balanced mind(equanimity)knowing that the one doing the harming is a sick or ignorant person and they are doing just as much damage to themselves as the other. both individuals must be helped.

metta,
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SDC
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by SDC »

jason c wrote:
SDC wrote:
jason c wrote:it would not be my fault, if someone else harmed a member of my family. and it would not be my fault if i could not prevent this from happening.
But would you do what you could to protect them? You wouldn't just sit back and let it happen? I doubt this is what you mean.

You wouldn't sacrifice yourself for another?
in a life threatening situation you will simply act, there will be no time for thinking. if i see someone harming another it is my duty to intervene, but it must be done with a balanced mind(equanimity)knowing that the one doing the harming is a sick or ignorant person and they are doing just as much damage to themselves as the other. both individuals must be helped.

metta,
jason
I agree 100%.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Mr Man
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by Mr Man »

Bodhisvasti I find your position to be totally lame - sorry.
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marc108
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by marc108 »

jason c wrote: hi marc108,
in a life or death situation, you will simply take action, no thinking will be necessary. if however you have the time to go to your safe, unlock it, load your gun, you will have made a conscious choice to hurt or harm someone. why invite that into ones life?
.
i dont believe that is true, in the context of the type of people you find here. i would like to think all of this Bhavana we do would not go out the window in a violent situation and we would have the ability to choose to put a bullet in someones arm rather than their head.

again, there are no rules, per say, against harming. the 1st precept is about killing. to bring true ahimsa to its final fruition we would all need to starve ourselves to death like the Jains. If you had the chance to use nonlethal violence against an attacker, instead of let him hurt you or your loved ones, this would be the right thing to do. to stand down in passivity and allow the evil people in this world to just do as they please to you, your loved ones, or people in general is, imo, wrong view and a defiled form of ahimsa. this passive, and extreme form of ahimsa is generally something you find to be only supported by lay people, and not something you find taught by the Buddha or by any of the great Buddhist Masters... in fact, in my experience, defending yourself and your loved ones within the context of the precepts is what you find to be echoed by the Great Masters.
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
Truth_Seeker1989
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by Truth_Seeker1989 »

Mr Man wrote:Bodhisvasti I find your position to be totally lame - sorry.
Why be sorry? It's your opinion.

But what position? How is it lame?

And I agree, marc108! There is thinking when it comes down to the act, you can choose to maim instead of kill, should you be mindful enough of yourself and the situation. And total passiveness as you said, would lead to people like Hitler destroying everything we love.
Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).
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Mr Man
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by Mr Man »

Bodhisvasti wrote:

But what position?
That it is okay to own a gun with the idea that it is acceptable to use the gun to cause harm to another human.
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Goofaholix
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by Goofaholix »

David N. Snyder wrote:Over at Dharma Wheel (Mahayana) there was a long discussion about guns; it got pretty heated at times and the moderators closed the thread several times (currently it is closed).
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=4884" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think in most western countries this question is a no brainer for a Buddhist, why own a gun unless you plan to kill people or animals?

However in the USA owning a gun is seen as a right, this is the problem, and the greater likelihood criminals being armed means a greater necessity of taking measures to defend ones family.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
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Re: should a practicing buddhist own a gun?

Post by Truth_Seeker1989 »

Mr Man wrote:
Bodhisvasti wrote:

But what position?
That it is okay to own a gun with the idea that it is acceptable to use the gun to cause harm to another human.
I see. So you ignored everything else then? I said 'only when absolutely necessary', many times. That is not lame, it is common sense. A gun is for self defense. You know beforehand that it will most likely be used to 'protect yourself and your family' by causing harm to another human or animal. I'm not seeing what you are saying?
Everything that makes you, you, is the result of your Environment (Society, Culture, Family, Friends, Etc), Genetics/Biology (Your brain which makes the mind possible, Inborn diseases such as Down Syndrome, or even Psociopathy, etc), Thoughts (Everything you think affects your mind, and the person you are), Speech (Same as thoughts, but words affect your environment as well), Actions (Same as Speech), and the Elements (Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Space, and Time).
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