Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

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Sekha
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Sekha »

Dmytro wrote: That's another misconception spread by Analayo. As anyone who actually reads the suttas can see, in Samyutta nikaya account Kasi Bharadvaja eventually becomes an arahant:
Then the brahman Kasi Bharadvaja... another one of the arahants.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Actually I was perfectly aware of this fact. But if you really "actually read" the sutta in its Pali version, you will find that in all Burmese, Thai and Singhalese editions, SN7.11 ends with the pericope:
Esāhaṃ bhavantaṃ gotamaṃ saraṇaṃ gacchāmi dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca. Upāsakaṃ maṃ bhavaṃ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṃ saraṇaṃ gata’’nti.
Both Than B and Piyadassi Thera rectified the mistake in their translation. SN 7's first vagga deals with Brahmans becoming arahants at the end of the story, whereas in the second vagga they become only lay followers. It is probable that the mistake comes from the fact that the first vagga may have used to contain 11 suttas, including SN7.11, but at some point, maybe for the sake of round figures, the first vagga would have been shortened to 10 suttas and SN7.11 would have slipped into the second vagga, which implied a change in the pericope.

So Bhante Analayo was right and this does prove that this kind of details of little interest in the suttas are not to be taken to the letter.

Dmytro wrote:
And anyway, the Buddha advises us not to accept anything that we have not cross-checked ourselves in our own experience (cf Kalama sutta for example).
Buddha does not ever advise such a thing. In Kalama Sutta he advises the listeners to check themselves the consequences of various types of behaviour.
Now, Kalamas, don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them.
don't go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, 'This contemplative is our teacher.' = the Buddha advises us not to accept anything...

When you know for yourselves that, 'These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness' — then you should enter & remain in them = not to accept anything that we have not cross-checked ourselves in our own experience...
Last edited by Sekha on Thu May 31, 2012 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sekha
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Sekha »

Bakmoon wrote: The reasons why these introductions are even part of the suttas isn't to give us some sort of historical record, but so that we would understand the context of the sutta (i.e. whether it was a talk given to a particular monk, a small group of people, or to a large crowd). When you understand this, you realize that these numbers were never intended to be taken literally, but were simply a literary device to help 'set the scene' so to speak.
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hanzze_
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by hanzze_ »

Not really one sutta, but a good composing which also clarifies the ongoing misunderstanding here: "Faith In Awakening" The Kalama-sutta is one of my favorite, but you can not trust your self all the time and even this is good pointed out, but beloved to ignore.
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Sekha wrote:It would be useful for me if you could list the 5 or 10 suttas that you consider as the most useful/important, or simply the first ones that come to your mind

thank you
Just for you, The Sekha Sutta. :)

I don't think anyone should limit their reading to just five or ten suttas. The best teaching for any individual depends on their particular abilities and interests, and this changes with time. So read widely, and when you find something of special interest, study it carefully.
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Sekha
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Sekha »

Thank you Bhante.

The question is actually to help me decide which suttas to work on in priority in the style of this one (as it is a lot of work):

http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/samy ... 6-011.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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robertk
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by robertk »

I love that site, nice way to translate side by side.
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Bonsai Doug
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Bonsai Doug »

I just want to say thanx for bringing this site to my attention. :anjali:
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I do not have the luxury of remaining on a distracted path.

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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by kirk5a »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Just for you, The Sekha Sutta. :)
Hello Bhante

I see this at that link:
2. Sekha Sutta.- On five things leading to decline in a monk’s training: delight in business, in gossip, in sleeping, in company, and want of reflection on the mind as freed. A.iii.116.
I'm curious about this "reflection on the mind as freed." Do you know of more detail where that is described?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Cittasanto »

have you decided on which text to do next?
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Sekha
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Sekha »

it seems outside of the classic Dhammacak, Anattalak, Mahasatip, Anapanasati, and Kalama Suttas, the list becomes quickly very personal.

I think of doing these first, and then just follow my inspiration, which will keep me rather close to practical instructions and definitions. Probably starting with Kayagatasati Sutta, AN 8-54 (the best for householders I think)... and that alone will keep me busy for a long while!
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Cittasanto »

Sekha wrote:it seems outside of the classic Dhammacak, Anattalak, Mahasatip, Anapanasati, and Kalama Suttas, the list becomes quickly very personal.

I think of doing these first, and then just follow my inspiration, which will keep me rather close to practical instructions and definitions. Probably starting with Kayagatasati Sutta, AN 8-54 (the best for householders I think)... and that alone will keep me busy for a long while!
Benefit of the Kayagatasati sutta is half the Satipatthana sutta is done! so why not swap it to before and then it is only the refrain you need to work on and the other (2/3 - half in length) just for practical purposes/speed...!
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Sekha
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Sekha »

anyway, the whole process while probably take months, if not years because I also work on my french website at the same time and I also diversify the work with small projects like deepening an article about a tricky Pali word etc.

I also started just copy/pasting Than B's translations with the Pali text for comparison and bubbles on those words a chose to translate in his own way, which not everyone ever agrees on (dukkha=stress f. ex), which i believe can also be very interesting for Pali autodidacts

example here:
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/majjhima/mn053.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Sekha
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Sekha »

Just started the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta :

http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/digha/dn22.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Kusala
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by Kusala »

Kalama sutta
Metta Sutta
Tittha Sutta

And a few others...
"He, the Blessed One, is indeed the Noble Lord, the Perfectly Enlightened One;
He is impeccable in conduct and understanding, the Serene One, the Knower of the Worlds;
He trains perfectly those who wish to be trained; he is Teacher of gods and men; he is Awake and Holy. "

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Apparent here and now, timeless, encouraging investigation,
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Re: Which suttas do you consider as the most important?

Post by ground »

Sabba sutta summarizes all (SN 35.23). Actually this is all that is relevant to "know". As an amendment (maybe) the Kaccayanagotta Sutta (SN 12.15).

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