Porn Free for 90 Days

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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manas
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by manas »

Hi dhammapal,

I posted the above half out of wanting to encourage you to keep going (because it is actually inspiring to read of someone sticking with something like this), and half out of just relating what has, or might, helped me and others. As you said, sexual lust is a big topic, and sometimes I feel as though it is this demon that hinders us from treading the path properly, it's such a stubborn irritation! But we can't just take a sword to it and kill it, though sometimes we might wish we could.
dhammapal wrote: What type of relationships with women would help overcome porn addiction? I have one female Buddhist e-mail friend who is older and like a mentor and we never write about sex. I make a point of having a man for my doctor(s) and face-to-face mentor, as a matter of boundaries. I had a female Buddhist psychologist once and became hypersexual (fortunately no harm done). I agree that the problem with porn is that you are freeze-framing women and not listening to them which gives the illusion that they are controllable objects. Their facial expression in reality relates to their relationship with the photographer with the mere illusion that they are smiling at you.
That wasn't really my idea, I just meant that Thanissaro Bhikkhu obviously didn't suggest that optiion! I was being hyper cautious that no-one should misunderstand.

Ok, where I got the 'meet with more real-world women' idea: I was at a sort of 'healing relationships' website where they recommended more interaction with real-world females as a means to alleviating the kind of 'spell' that porn can have. In my experience, it does actually work. I can recall being quite involved in using porn, and then one day I met this girl I felt quite drawn to, and thinking of that one glance into her eyes where two people made a connection, rather than just one man looking at a picture on a screen, had a tangible effect on me. That night I did not feel like doing porn, I actually felt like meeting her again. Nothing lasting came of it, but I have found in other instances also, that getting out more in the real world and spending time with real people does help break the spell that porn casts.

Anyway, that's all just my thoughts, take what might help and leave the rest! :D

with metta to all,

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
dhammapal
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhammapal »

Ben wrote:
dhammapal wrote:What type of relationships with women would help overcome porn addiction?
Brother/Sister, Mother/Son, Father/Daughter.
I meant that as a rhetorical question offering my answers. I attended a talk by Ayya Khema once and she taught the idea that male and female bodies are much the same.
Ben wrote:
Overcoming lust is a huge topic which is beyond the scope of this thread. Could someone point me to a current thread on the topic?
This thread documents some members progress in overcoming a great difficulty in their lives. I hope this thread provides you with the inspiration, encouragement, strength and feelings of companionship with others who are dealing with the same demons.
When I said "huge topic" I didn't mean I was overwhelmed. "Overcoming lust is a very broad topic" would have been more accurate.

Yes I found this thread very helpful at Day 9. I wouldn't have thrown out the CD-ROM backups of my photos if I hadn't posted here earlier that night saying I had deleted them from my hard disk and Recycle bin. And hearing about the distress that porn addiction has caused others is helping me realize that the problem is real and not just my own idiosyncrasy. I think I have overcome the addiction for this lifetime but I still need to overcome the perception that porn is desirable otherwise I will definitely use it as an adolescent in future lives.

I've decided not to post to this thread anymore as it is triggering a heart condition I had when I looked at porn last year. As I wrote previously I need to let go of the tendency to want to teach others and just concentrate on overcoming my own addiction.

With metta / dhammapal.
Last edited by dhammapal on Tue May 15, 2012 6:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhammapal »

dhammapal wrote:I've decided not to post to this thread anymore as it is triggering a heart condition I had when I looked at porn last year. As I wrote previously I need to let go of the tendency to want to teach others and just concentrate on overcoming my own addiction.

With metta / dhammapal.
I think it would be triggering to not post here, so I'm back. But I'm going to stop calling myself a porn addict which is negative thinking. Maybe ex-porn addict might be better.

27 1/2 days.

With metta / dhammapal.
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manas
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by manas »

dhammapal wrote: But I'm going to stop calling myself a porn addict which is negative thinking. Maybe ex-porn addict might be better.

27 1/2 days.

With metta / dhammapal.


I would agree with that. One of the things that greatly annoyed me when I tried a 12-step program, was this labelling of 'you are an addict'. It's wise to drop the label. :thumbsup:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhammapal »

manas wrote:
dhammapal wrote: But I'm going to stop calling myself a porn addict which is negative thinking. Maybe ex-porn addict might be better.

27 1/2 days.

With metta / dhammapal.


I would agree with that. One of the things that greatly annoyed me when I tried a 12-step program, was this labelling of 'you are an addict'. It's wise to drop the label. :thumbsup:
Thanks. That made my day! :anjali:
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhammapal »

To build good rapport with someone, your gaze should meet theirs 60% to 70% of the time.

BUSINESS GAZE - Imagine there is a triangle on the other person's forehead. Keep your gaze directed on this area. This will create a serious atmosphere. The other person will know you mean business.

SOCIAL GAZE - When the gaze drops below the other person's eye level, a social atmosphere develops. Look at the triangular area below the eyes (include the nose and mouth).

INTIMATE GAZE - This gaze goes across the eyes and below the chin to other parts of the body. When close it forms a triangle from the eyes to both sides of the chest or breasts. From a distance it is from the eyes to the crotch. If the person is interested, he/she will return the gaze.

The type of gaze you use in face to face encounters have powerful results. Use the appropriate gaze for this situation.
From: Where Do Your Eyes Gaze? by: Kathy Thompson
I think this is an argument against watching regular TV let alone porn. It is so tempting to use the intimate gaze because the woman on the TV can't see you. I would find it difficult to maintain the social gaze let alone the business gaze.

28 days.

With metta / dhammapal.
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Alobha
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Alobha »

Hello everyone,

i just finished the 90 days Challenge today and would like to give everyone, who is doing this or considers doing it, a review of my experiences.

One of the reasons i took part in this challenge is because i could see the value in it. I'm still quite young and while i was not addicted to porn, there certainly was clinging to pleasant female forms and bodily stimulation (and suffering because of that clinging, too.). It used to make me tired and sometimes unsatisfied - which is not surprising when one craves.

So, what did i do?
I applied mindfulness to all objects related to this matter throughout the day. When my eyes made contact with a form (a pretty girl, legs, breast, a smile, a charming face) and it moved into my consciousness, i noticed whether it was related to a pleasant, unpleasant or neutral feeling.
If there was a pleasant feeling, i watched whether there was a will or craving for the form. It's the same for the unpleasant feeling, but you have to look whether there is the will or craving for avoiding the object / getting away from the object.

The same procedure was applied when related thoughts made contact with the mind, when form-impressions made contact with the mind, when bodily sensations made contact with consciousness, when impressions of bodily sensations made contact with the mind and when particular sounds made contact with the ear (heard my neighbours making love! :D), ... the teaching of dependent origination / Paticca samuppada is of greatest value for better applying mindfulness and understanding how craving is lessend or empowered.

How did it work out?
The first days or few weeks had some tough moments. The mind clinged to old habits and struggles and tends to try go with aversion to "get rid of these objects". Aversion just creates more tension and this tendency of the mind came up a few times. I underestimated this danger sometimes at first, too.

Interestingly, i find that the mind get's tired of watching how it clinges rather fast. I repeated mindful observations as often as possible, on many occassions every day. As soon as the mind understood, that there is no stimulation coming, lust was seeking other channels to express itself.
I had a phase where i made much more dirty jokes than usual. So many bad dirty jokes, that it was impossible not to notice :D
Another phase was where the lust tries to enforce other aspects, like much more thoughts about relationships, love, loving a partner (not just physically), seeking more contact to other people, wishing to be together with people more closely and so on. It led me to observe these matters more closely too.

I didn't think this whole project would be such a big deal, but after 90 days i see that from a different perspective. I only realized how much sexuality influenced my way of thinking, talking and behaving after the impact of sexuality on my actions startened to lessen. When i met a very pretty girl a week ago, i was amazed how openly we could talk with each other - i had no intention to find out whether there would be chances to make out, nor did i behave in any particular way to not "waste chances", but just talked very openly. Without sexuality affecting getting to know that girl, we had some wonderful discussions just because i did not worry about whether i could be rejected. I was excited when she told me that she met another guy last week and that they got along really well - i was happy for that girl to find even more good company!
Overall, many things got way less complicated, especially during the last 3 weeks. I'm much more at peace with myself and the world, especially after i realized that occasional longing for a partner was also linked to lust. There is less craving for other people in general now. I don't get upset when friends cancel plans to hang out, i just don't crave for other persons that much anymore and i feel more at peace with being alone. And yes, the most obvious: i'm more content with being single and there is less to none craving for sexual stimulation (whether it's the eye or the body). The last couple of weeks, i did not even consider watching porn or anything like that - i just had no interest in it at all. Same for bodily stimulation - i just don't find anything of interest in it and the idea doesn't come up in the mind anymore.

Before the start i already told myself that i won't deny having a partnership when the opportunity just comes up. I still don't persist on going on with celibacy for the rest of my life. I don't crave for continueing with celibacy, but i just feel content and comfortable with continuing now. It's not stressful, it's not tiring. When i go to sleep, i don't go to sleep dissatisfied and tired from lust. During the day and when i wake up, i feel more energized than i used to.

However, the most important thing for me is: My mind is much more at ease, my overall well-being / contentness increased - i often experienced intense forms of joy resulting from renunciation during the last couple of weeks :smile: All of this gives rise to more kindness towards myself and others, too. While the first weeks were difficult sometimes, it was definately all worth it. This challenge was (and still is!) a great opportunity to learn important lessons about the mind and i want to thank everyone who participated in this thread with their input. Sexuality is a topic deeply entrenched in modern western society and strongly linked with pleasantness and greed. If one wants to put effort into dealing with the kilesas, this may be an overlooked, but great chance.

Best wishes and much metta,
Alobha
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Modus.Ponens »

Thanks for your report Alobha! That was very interesting. :smile:
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by reflection »

Thanks for the report Alobha! :anjali: Nice to see you are doing well. :twothumbsup:

For me it is not going as planned. I still have not found the right conviction yet, but nonetheless I'm still working on it daily. I am guessing full conviction of the uselessness of sensuality only comes with non-returning, so maybe I'm aiming a bit too high :tongue: and should act (or rather, not act :jumping: ) based more on faith. Anyway, due to body contemplation, pornography and sexual activities do get more repelling with time and are losing their grip slowly; this I can clearly see. Also, in general my meditation is more peaceful (not as peaceful as ever, but considering the busy life I have now, it goes pretty well), so I think it'll work out in the end. Even if it takes much longer than 90 days, it'll probably be worth it. Next lifetime maybe, or maybe 7 days.. who knows. :?: But who doesn't try, doesn't win. ;)

Metta to all,
Reflection
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by mikenz66 »

Thanks for sharing Alobha. Very inspirational!

:anjali:
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by dhamma_newb »

Hi Alobha,

Congratulations and thanks for sharing your experiences. I think your use of Dependent Origination to complete the 90 days was pretty smart of you.
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by perkele »

Hello!

Nice reflection, Alobha. Well done.
I just came here to admit that I have failed to keep with my adhitanna, and in order to at least keep with what I said earlier I have to announce it here, although it's almost two weeks late. Anyhow, I don't feel bad about it and the effort was a good one. It has changed my perception in good ways on many levels. I won't make any more promises, but I'll continue developing my meditation and with trying to put all things in a proper perspective, because I see the good results. And my excuse for coming out with it so late is that I had more useful stuff to do, for example going to yet another meditation retreat.
May the force be with you all! And I wish the best success for all those who are going on with this effort and also for those who are not. May you all find and maintain peace and clarity of mind in all aspects of your life. And once again I'd like to thank Don for starting this up and all those who gave helpful input.
:bow:

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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by befriend »

well done alobha!, its inspired me to work on this aspect. im wondering did you take a vow each morning or any vows to help you?
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by Alobha »

befriend wrote:well done alobha!, its inspired me to work on this aspect. im wondering did you take a vow each morning or any vows to help you?
During the start for about the first or first two weeks i did, yes. It can help getting over the rough patches. Personally, i found it more helpful to make a promise to a close friend / to gather allies (like in the thread here). Another step however, that helped me to stay mindful and motivated when i was close to giving up sometimes, was to be curious and apply the mindfulness to the objects that seem to create the most tensions.
E.g. I just remembered that during the first days, i thought i would "go mad" if i don't get relief sometimes (especially in the morning :D ).
"I will get mad" "I will get crazy" "I can't do it." "this will never go away!" - if you acknowledge this stuff really ask yourself "Will i really get mad? Will that happen if there is no relief right now? Will i jump around, will my head explode, will i turn insane? Let's find out what happens when i wait." Curiousity to find out what happens is helpful to just stay mindful and not act on the lust. Wait for what happens and watch carefully for madness and explosions ( ;) ), tensions and lust will just fade away sooner or later.

That may just be me, but i find when one has a hard time and is about to give up, the mind is usually going wild, searching for excuses why it's ok to give up or why one has to give in to things. If one is just mindful of these silly ideas and see them for what they are, they loose a lot of their power. Taking a vow or to remind yourself of your goal on several informal occassions and why you do it is good for keeping up overall determination.
I find it more problematic what to do when the mind is "just now" caught up in lust, with the body in an acute state of tension and one struggles. In these acute situations i rather went for mindfulness of the situation in regard to dependent origination. whether it's the feelings in the body, thoughts or what else is drawing the attention. The other tendency of thoughts "It will be so unbelievable great to get relief" as opposed to "Something terrible will happen it i don't get my relief" can be deconstructed with recollecting past experience and knowledge about dukkha, too. You do know that craving will come back, that you will never satisfy lust, that giving in will not ultimatively make you happier in the longterm. If you are not to sure about these things, you can also go with the thought that it's unsure. Maybe giving in will make you happier in the longterm, but you decided to take a break for it for xx days to find out how it feels without it. The mind may get quiet if it is put off with "Yeah ok, after the 90 days we can do that. For now let's see how it is without. Let's give this a chance."

I'm happy to hear that my reflections offer some inspiration :smile: Of course everyone needs to find out for oneself what works. Maybe i'm the only one who used to think i would get crazy :D

Best wishes,
Alobha
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Re: Porn Free for 90 Days

Post by cooran »

Good One, Alobha! :twothumbsup:

Thanks Perkele – for the effort you put in, for your honesty, for your ongoing work with meditation, and for the obvious benefits you achieved. :twothumbsup:

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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