Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by Spiny O'Norman » Wed May 27, 2009 8:14 am

Is there a tradition in Therevada for doing insight meditation on the 3 characteristics? If so, how should this be approached?
Thanks.

Rick

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 19932
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by retrofuturist » Wed May 27, 2009 8:44 am

Greetings Rick,

These three characteristics are all observed during vipassana meditation.

So is your question actually asking about different vipassana techniques?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by kc2dpt » Wed May 27, 2009 1:21 pm

"Thus, monks, any form whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every form is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'

"Any feeling whatsoever...

"Any perception whatsoever...

"Any fabrications whatsoever...

"Any consciousness whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: every consciousness is to be seen as it actually is with right discernment as: 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'

- SN 22.59
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by Spiny O'Norman » Thu May 28, 2009 8:09 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Rick,

These three characteristics are all observed during vipassana meditation.

So is your question actually asking about different vipassana techniques?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Yes, Retro, that's right. I am OK observing arising and ceasing, but I'm not sure where to go next. I find that if I introduce the 3 characteristics into meditation I get quickly involved in concepts ( thinking about them ) rather than just observing....which doesn't feel right.

Rick

User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by Spiny O'Norman » Thu May 28, 2009 8:11 am

[quote="Peter 'This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.'
- SN 22.59[/quote]

Thanks Peter. I'm familiar with this but haven't actually used it in meditation - is this what you're suggesting?

Rick

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23044
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by tiltbillings » Thu May 28, 2009 8:14 am

Rick O'Shez wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Rick,

These three characteristics are all observed during vipassana meditation.

So is your question actually asking about different vipassana techniques?

Metta,
Retro. :)
Yes, Retro, that's right. I am OK observing arising and ceasing, but I'm not sure where to go next. I find that if I introduce the 3 characteristics into meditation I get quickly involved in concepts ( thinking about them ) rather than just observing....which doesn't feel right.

Rick

It shouldn't feel right. Introducing concepts into your practice is exactly what you are doing. Spend some time with this guy: http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/?q=&sort=rec_date" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by rowyourboat » Thu May 28, 2009 11:46 am

or go to his source:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/mahasi.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


you might need some samatha in there for the understanding to really 'stick'. For satipatthana to truly develop you need to get into (not intentionally- it is just a development) a 'vipassana atmosphere' of seeing nothing but impermanence everywhere you look. Seeing arising and passing away is what will eventually lead up to it. How are you seeing arising and passing away and how long do you do it?
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by Spiny O'Norman » Fri May 29, 2009 8:13 am

rowyourboat wrote:or go to his source:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/mahasi.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


you might need some samatha in there for the understanding to really 'stick'. For satipatthana to truly develop you need to get into (not intentionally- it is just a development) a 'vipassana atmosphere' of seeing nothing but impermanence everywhere you look. Seeing arising and passing away is what will eventually lead up to it. How are you seeing arising and passing away and how long do you do it?
Thanks. So are you saying that awareness of impermanence is "central" to vipassana, rather than awareness of non-self? Currently I am working and only doing 30 minutes meditation a day, which I am fully aware isn't enough to really get to grips with this stuff.

Rick

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 19932
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by retrofuturist » Fri May 29, 2009 8:40 am

Greetings Rick,
Rick O'Shez wrote:So are you saying that awareness of impermanence is "central" to vipassana, rather than awareness of non-self?
The point is observing these characteristics rather than conceptualising and mentally proliferating them.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
puthujjana
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:13 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Contact:

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by puthujjana » Fri May 29, 2009 9:26 am

Rick O'Shez wrote:So are you saying that awareness of impermanence is "central" to vipassana, rather than awareness of non-self?
You can conclude the other two characteristics by observing impermanence:
"Now is what is impermanent painful or pleasant?" — "Painful, venerable Sir." — "Now is what is impermanent, what is painful since subject to change, fit to be regarded thus: 'This is mine, this is I, this is my self'"? — "No, venerable sir."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
:anjali:
"Once you understand anatta, then the burden of life is gone. You’ll be at peace with the world. When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness and we can truly be happy."
- Ajahn Chah

User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by Spiny O'Norman » Sat May 30, 2009 8:08 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Rick,
Rick O'Shez wrote:So are you saying that awareness of impermanence is "central" to vipassana, rather than awareness of non-self?
The point is observing these characteristics rather than conceptualising and mentally proliferating them.

Metta,
Retro. :)
Yes, I'm sure you're right. More time on the cushion is probably the answer.

Rick

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by Ben » Sat May 30, 2009 9:01 am

Hi Rick

I think that's probably a good way to approach the observation of tilakkhana.
My experience has been that as my awareness of one characteristic becomes acute, I simultaneously begin to become aware of the other characteristics.
Observation of the anicca characteristic of vedana (sensation) has been my principal technique.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

User avatar
Jechbi
Posts: 1268
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:38 am
Contact:

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by Jechbi » Sat May 30, 2009 3:43 pm

Rick O'Shez wrote:... how should this be approached?
You don't have to approach them. They approach you. So for example if your meditation is on the breath, just keep doing that. It is anicca. It is anatta. It is dukkha.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.

User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by Spiny O'Norman » Sun May 31, 2009 9:08 am

Ben wrote:Hi Rick

I think that's probably a good way to approach the observation of tilakkhana.
My experience has been that as my awareness of one characteristic becomes acute, I simultaneously begin to become aware of the other characteristics.
Observation of the anicca characteristic of vedana (sensation) has been my principal technique.
Metta

Ben
Yes, thanks, that makes sense.

Rick

User avatar
Spiny O'Norman
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 8:46 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Insight meditation on the 3 characteristics?

Post by Spiny O'Norman » Sun May 31, 2009 9:12 am

Jechbi wrote:
Rick O'Shez wrote:... how should this be approached?
You don't have to approach them. They approach you. So for example if your meditation is on the breath, just keep doing that. It is anicca. It is anatta. It is dukkha.
In practice I find that my focus on the breath "lightens" after a period of time and I become aware in a more general way of what my mind is up to.

Rick

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 8 guests