Greetings,
tiltbillings wrote:Upādāna, fuel, was used very deliberately by the Buddha to make a point about the khandhas.
Yes, once we stop appropriating, and let go of what was appropriated, the fire goes out.
SN 12.52: Updana Sutta
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Dwelling at Savatthi. There the Blessed One said to the monks: "In one who keeps focusing on the allure of clingable phenomena (or: phenomena that offer sustenance = the five aggregates), craving develops. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origin of this entire mass of suffering & stress.
"Just as if a great mass of fire of ten... twenty... thirty or forty cartloads of timber were burning, and into it a man would time & again throw dried grass, dried cow dung, & dried timber, so that the great mass of fire — thus nourished, thus sustained — would burn for a long, long time. In the same way, in one who keeps focusing on the allure of clingable phenomena, craving develops. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origin of this entire mass of suffering & stress.
"Now, in one who keeps focusing on the drawbacks of clingable phenomena, craving ceases. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging, illness & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering & stress.
"Just as if a great mass of fire of ten... twenty... thirty or forty cartloads of timber were burning, into which a man simply would not time & again throw dried grass, dried cow dung, or dried timber, so that the great mass of fire — its original sustenance being consumed, and no other being offered — would, without nutriment, go out. In the same way, in one who keeps focusing on the drawbacks of clingable phenomena, craving ceases. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging, illness & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering & stress."
tiltbillings wrote:Okay, but I still see here no justification for reading upādānakkhandhā in the past tense as "appropriated khandhas."
By "appropriated khandhas" I didn't mean just past ones at the exclusion of active appropriations. It's both the "old kamma" (old appropriations) which in the above example would constitute to the "cartloads of timber", and the "new kamma" (new appropriations) as well, which in the above example would be "time & again throw dried grass, dried cow dung, & dried timber". As in the simile, it's both. Only once both are exhausted does the flame goes out, and then there is nibbana. Note: nibbana (cessation of this entire mass of suffering & stress) occurs
before the (conventionally defined) death of the arahant... not afterwards, thereby giving a clue as to what it is that goes out.
tiltbillings wrote: My guess is that our opinions are going to be at variance.
That's alright. It's not the end of the loka.
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."