Micca Samadhi

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Zom
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Re: Micca Samadhi

Post by Zom »

Perhaps you interpret this passage as "inside a jhana":

"If, while the monk is dwelling by means of this dwelling, his mind inclines to walking back & forth, he walks back & forth [thinking,] 'While I am walking thus, no covetousness or sadness, no evil, unskillful qualities will take possession of me.' In this way he is alert there.

But this is not the case. It is actually said here "while the monk is dwelling ("is living") [generally] by means of this dwelling..." and not "while in the jhana".
Easy to prove. Just look further.


"If, while he is dwelling by means of this dwelling, his mind inclines to speaking, he resolves that 'I will not engage in talk that is base, vulgar, common, ignoble, unbeneficial, that does not lead to disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, calm, direct knowledge, self-awakening, or Unbinding — i.e., talk about kings, robbers, & ministers of state; armies, alarms, & battles; food & drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, & scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women & heroes; the gossip of the street & the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity, the creation of the world & of the sea; talk of whether things exist or not.' In this way he is alert there. "'But,' [he resolves,] 'I will engage in talk that is scrupulous, conducive to release of awareness,


Elsewhere in other suttas it is said that even in the 1st jhana all thinking (internal speech) completely stops. Not to say about 4th jhana. Even if we don't interpret internal speech as thinking, then this is surely so in the 2nd jhana, where there is no vitakka/vicara at all. So, in the 4th jhana there can be no thoughts and no speech. But one not knowing this, taking as a support this passage from MN 122, may think that in the 4th jhana there is still speech and thinking; and that it can be done while walking -)
but this discussion can continue elsewhere, like the thread regarding it here
Here is okey too, because 4th jhana while walking is also a wrong samadhi -)
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Cittasanto
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Re: Micca Samadhi

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Zom wrote:Perhaps you interpret this passage as "inside a jhana":

"If, while the monk is dwelling by means of this dwelling, his mind inclines to walking back & forth, he walks back & forth [thinking,] 'While I am walking thus, no covetousness or sadness, no evil, unskillful qualities will take possession of me.' In this way he is alert there.
But this is not the case. It is actually said here "while the monk is dwelling ("is living") [generally] by means of this dwelling..." and not "while in the jhana".
Easy to prove. Just look further.
yes it is speaking in a general manner about the state they are in, after all the four Jhanas are in the Noble One's discipline called abidings in ease here and now, and vihara, the word translated here as dwelling, could refer to several things, postures, or activities included.
the strength of concentration needed is debatable, all that can be said for certain is the Jhana factors need to be present and it maybe more the case that the Buddha encouraged these Jhana qualities in every posture and activity also and used the same names, this being one direct reference to this that has survived, but that is just a guess.
Although I see no difference between your rendering and what the sutta is saying.
Elsewhere in other suttas it is said that even in the 1st jhana all thinking (internal speech) completely stops. Not to say about 4th jhana. Even if we don't interpret internal speech as thinking, then this is surely so in the 2nd jhana, where there is no vitakka/vicara at all. So, in the 4th jhana there can be no thoughts and no speech. But one not knowing this, taking as a support this passage from MN 122, may think that in the 4th jhana there is still speech and thinking; and that it can be done while walking -)
yet the suttas are clear that initial and sustained thought are part of the first Jhana and that discernment and knowing are or can be present in the Jhanas!
Here is okey too, because 4th jhana while walking is also a wrong samadhi -)
how is it wrong samadhi?
did the Buddha not praise meditation, and recommend walking meditation, one of its benefits is that concentration lasts a long time?
and as it is found within the texts, regardless what anyone thinks of it, a difference in interpretation does not equate it being Micca Samadhi.
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