Brizzy wrote: SamKR wrote:
I think one of the problems stems from the fact that any defence of Goenka tends to come from his disciples and not the man himself or his organisation.
Isn't it true for almost all disciples and organisations? And I don't think it's a problem.
The smiles one sees on day 11 are indeed the smiles of relief as of a prisoner released (IMO).
Well, yes some smiles could be because of relief of a "prisoner" released (if the method is not suitable for them). But certainly not all; many are because of meditation method itself.
And, I think this is true for any long course.
Probably the number of "prisoners" depend upon locality or country, and their cultural background or other factors.
What is your view on this view?............
................ Mr Goenka's organisation is a closed book that refuses to engage with other traditions or directly engage with accusations made against them or defend their own highly original interpretations of the suttas and the teachings. The reasoning I have seen for this attitude is that 'we have got it right, why should we engage in dispute with others'. If the Buddha had this attitude then his Dhamma might not have lasted beyond a century...............
If I express my views on this view, I guess your view would be more likely that I am trying to defend Goenkaji's views (method) at any cost.
But I am not, I think. I am just expressing what I feel. I have nothing to gain personally by defending Goenkaji. I am kind of freelancer Dhamma follower, and not highly committed for the technique or the organization.
Yes, I agree that this organisation and the affiliated people mostly
do not engage in debates or directly engage with accusations made against them...(well, sometimes they do).
But I don't think that your reasoning for this is quite accurate. They do not engage in such things because they think it is futile to do so. Why futile? It is not only because of the attitude that "we have got it right, why should we engage in dispute with others" (which I think is a good attitude!) but also because of the mental training they get. The experienced old mediators (not the less experienced ones; they tend to be talkative like me) are slowly becoming incapable
of engaging in disputes.
It's actually totally futile, totally -- at least in my experience so far. But again there is this temptation to talk or dispute.
We are not the
Buddha. We don't know much about his attitude or teaching strategy.