SN 12.25: Bhumija Sutta

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Sam Vara
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Re: SN 12.25: Bhumija Sutta

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:57 pm

I am having some trouble understanding the concept of "bodily intention" and how it would lead to bodily fabrications and then through the chain to pleasure and pain. Might someone be able to offer an illustrative example?
Me too. Kayasankhara I think I understand. But Kayasancetana is a new one for me, and the Abidhamma commentary is not too helpful in terms of what it would look or feel like. Other than the aim or object of the intention being physical (e.g. my intention is to do something with or to the body) intentions seem to be mental.

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Re: SN 12.25: Bhumija Sutta

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:32 am

I'm afraid I do find parts of this sutta difficult to follow. Not sure if it's a problem with the translations or that it's just difficult material...

:anjali:
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Re: SN 12.25: Bhumija Sutta

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:38 am

“Ignorance is comprised within these states.
  • Spk: Ignorance is included among these states under the heading of decisive support (upanissaya); for they are all comprehended under this phrase, “With ignorance as condition, volitional formations.”

    BB: On the interpretation of paṭicca-samuppāda by way of the twenty-four conditional relations of the Paṭṭhāna, see Visudhimagga, chap. 17, concisely explained in Nyanatiloka Thera, Guide through the Abhidhamma Piṭaka, pp. 159-73.

But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance that body does not exist conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise internally; that speech does not exist conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise internally; that mind does not exist conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise internally.
  • Spk: That body does not exist which, if it existed, would enable pleasure and pain to arise conditioned by bodily volition; the same method of explanation applies to speech and mind. (Query:) But an arahant acts, speaks, and thinks, so how is it that his body, etc., do not exist? (Reply:) In the sense that they do not generate kammic results. For the deeds done by an arahant are neither wholesome nor unwholesome kamma, but merely functional (kiriyamatta); thus for him it is said, “that body, etc., do not exist.”

    BB: On the functional consciousness of the arahant, see CMA 1:15. An alternative explanation might be simply that with the elimination of ignorance there will be no further arising of the five aggregates, the basis of all experience, and thus no further experiencing of pleasure and pain.
That field does not exist, that site does not exist, that base does not exist, that foundation does not exist conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise internally.”
  • Spk: There is no field (khetta) in the sense of a place of growth; no site (vatthu) in the sense of a support; no base (āyatana) in the sense of a condition; no foundation (adhikaraṇa) in the sense of a cause.

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Re: SN 12.25: Bhumija Sutta

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:44 am

Here is some interesting reading from:
Ethics in early Buddhism By David J. Kalupahana
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=wEN2 ... ta&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this from Ajahn Brahm:
http://www.dhammatalks.net/Books11/Ajah ... emarks.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But in case someone is still not convinced that Vedana has a cause originating in a previous life, I cite the Bhumija Sutta, No 25 of the Nidana Samyutta. ...
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