SN 12.23 Upanisa Sutta: Discourse on Supporting Conditions

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Re: SN 12.23 Upanisa Sutta: Discourse on Supporting Conditions

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:13 am

Some of the passages mentioned in the above link.

MN 44 PTS Culavedalla Sutta: The Shorter Set of Questions-and-Answers
"Is passion-obsession to be abandoned with regard to all pleasant feeling? Is resistance-obsession to be abandoned with regard to all painful feeling? Is ignorance-obsession to be abandoned with regard to all neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling?"

"No... There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With that he abandons passion. No passion-obsession gets obsessed there.[4] There is the case where a monk considers, 'O when will I enter & remain in the dimension that those who are noble now enter & remain in?' And as he thus nurses this yearning for the unexcelled liberations, there arises within him sorrow based on that yearning. With that he abandons resistance. No resistance-obsession gets obsessed there.[5] There is the case where a monk, with the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. With that he abandons ignorance. No ignorance-obsession gets obsessed there."[6]

"Now what, lady, lies on the other side of pleasant feeling?"

"Passion lies on the other side of pleasant feeling."

"And what lies on the other side of painful feeling?"

"Resistance lies on the other side of painful feeling." [7]

"What lies on the other side of neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling?"

"Ignorance lies on the other side of neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling."

"What lies on the other side of ignorance?"

"Clear knowing lies on the other side of ignorance."

"What lies on the other side of clear knowing?"

"Release lies on the other side of clear knowing."

"What lies on the other side of release?"

"Unbinding lies on the other side of release."

"What lies on the other side of Unbinding?"

"You've gone too far, friend Visakha. You can't keep holding on up to the limit of questions. For the holy life gains a footing in Unbinding, culminates in Unbinding, has Unbinding as its final end. If you wish, go to the Blessed One and ask him the meaning of these things. Whatever he says, that's how you should remember it."

Notes

4. In other words, once the pleasure of the first jhana has been used as a basis for giving rise to the discernment that leads to arahantship, the mind has no further passion-obsession with pleasant feeling. (The commentary says that this is true at attainment of non-returning, but this must be a mistake, as non-returners are still subject to passion for form and formless phenomena.)

5. Once this sorrow has been used as a basis for giving rise to the discernment that leads to non-returning, the mind has no further resistance-obsession with painful feeling.

6. Once this feeling of neither pleasure nor pain has been used as a basis for giving rise to the discernment that leads to arahantship, the mind has no further ignorance-obsession with feelings of neither pleasure nor pain.

7. This reading follows the Thai edition of the Pali canon. The PTS edition of the Pali canon gives the first two questions and answers in this exchange as follows:

"Now what, lady, lies on the other side of pleasant feeling?"
"Painful feeling lies on the other side of pleasant feeling."
"And what lies on the other side of painful feeling?"
"Pleasant feeling lies on the other side of painful feeling."

For some reason, the editors of neither edition seem to have been aware of the reading in the other edition.
AN vi.50
http://bps.lk/olib/wh/wh208-p.html#27.StepbyStep" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If there is no sense control, O monks, then the basis for virtue is destroyed for one who lacks sense control. If there is no virtue, then the basis for right concentration is destroyed for one who lacks virtue. If there is no right concentration, then the basis for knowledge and vision of things as they really are is destroyed for one who lacks right concentration. If there is no knowledge and vision of things as they really are, then the basis for revulsion and dispassion is destroyed for one who lacks such knowledge and vision. If there is no revulsion and dispassion, then the basis for the knowledge and vision of liberation is destroyed for one who lacks revulsion and dispassion.

This is like a tree without branches and foliage: the buds will not mature; nor will the bark, the greenwood, and the heartwood mature. Similarly, if sense control is absent, there will be no basis for virtue … for knowledge and vision of liberation.
AN v,1
http://bps.lk/olib/wh/wh238-p.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“Hence, Ananda, virtuous ways of conduct have non-remorse as their benefit and reward; non-remorse has gladness as its benefit and reward; gladness has joy as its benefit and reward; joy has serenity as its benefit and reward; serenity has happiness as its benefit and reward; happiness has concentration as its benefit and reward; concentration has knowledge and vision of things as they really are as its benefit and reward; knowledge and vision of things as they really are has revulsion and dispassion as its benefit and reward; revulsion and dispassion have the knowledge and vision of liberation as their benefit and reward. In this way, Ananda, virtuous ways of conduct lead step by step to the highest.”
AN v,2-3
http://bps.lk/olib/wh/wh238-p.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
For one who is virtuous and endowed with virtue, there is no need for an act of will: “May non-remorse arise in me!” It is a natural law, monks, that non-remorse will arise in one who is virtuous.
...
Thus, monks, revulsion and dispassion have knowledge and vision of liberation as their benefit and reward … (continued in conformity with the above, back to) … virtuous ways of conduct have non-remorse as their benefit and reward.

Thus, monks, the preceding qualities flow into the succeeding qualities; the succeeding qualities bring the preceding qualities to perfection, for going from the near shore to the far shore.
MN 24 Ratha-vinita Sutta: Relay Chariots
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[The basis for the steps of the Path of Purification (Visuddhimagga)]
"And is the holy life lived under the Blessed One for the sake of purity in terms of virtue?"[2]

"No, my friend."
...
... purity in terms of mind [concentration]?"
... purity in terms of view?"
... purity in terms of the overcoming of perplexity?"
... purity in terms of knowledge & vision of what is & is not the path?"
... purity in terms of knowledge & vision of the way?"
... purity in terms of knowledge & vision?"
...
"The holy life is lived under the Blessed One, my friend, for the sake of total Unbinding through lack of clinging."
DN 18 Janavasabha Sutta: About janavasabha
From right view arises right thought, from right thought arises right speech, from right speech arises right action, from right action arises right livelihood, from right livelihood arises right effort, from right effort arises right mindfulness, from right mindfulness arises right concentration, from right concentration arises right knowledge, from right knowledge arises right liberation
SN 35.97 Pamadaviharin Sutta: Dwelling in Heedlessness
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"And how does one dwell in heedfulness? When a monk dwells with restraint over the faculty of the eye, the mind is not stained with forms cognizable via the eye. When the mind is not stained, there is joy. There being joy, there is rapture. There being rapture, there is serenity. There being serenity, he dwells in ease. The mind of one at ease becomes centered. When the mind is centered, phenomena (dhammas) become manifest. When phenomena are manifest, one is classed simply as one who dwells in heedfulness.
:anjali:
Mike

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Re: SN 12.23 Upanisa Sutta: Discourse on Supporting Conditions

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:06 am

“Just as, bhikkhus, when rain pours down in thick droplets on a mountain top, the water flows down along the slope and fills the cleft, gullies, and creeks; these being full fill up the pools; these being full fill up the lakes; these being full fill up the streams; these being full fill up the rivers; and these being full fill up the great ocean; so too, with ignorance as proximate cause, volitional formations [come to be]; with volitional formations as proximate cause, consciousness … with liberation as proximate cause, the knowledge of destruction.”

BB: The simile also occurs at


SN 55:38 Rain
“Bhikkhus, just as, when rain pours down in thick droplets on a mountain top, the water flows down along the slope and fills the cleft, gullies, and creeks; these being filled fill up the pools; these being filled fill up the lakes; these being filled fill up the streams; these being filled fill up the rivers; and these being filled fill up the great ocean; so too, for a noble disciple, these things—confirmed confidence in the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Saṅgha, and the virtues dear to the noble ones—flow onwards and, having gone beyond, they lead to the destruction of the taints.”
(AN I 243,27-32) AN 3.94
3. Saradasutta: In Autumn

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .html#sn55" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
95. Bhikkhus, in Autumn when there is a clear sky, without a single cloud and the sun rising high up in the sky destroys all the darkness and burns and scorches every thing. In the same manner to the noble disciple there arises the eye of the Teaching and together with that arising, three bonds get dispelled, the view of a self, doubts and taking virtues as the ultimate end of the holy life. After that the leading is by covetousness and hatred. He secluding the mind from sensual and demeritorious thoughts, with thoughts and thought processes and with joy and pleasantness born of seclusion abides in the first jhana. If the noble disciple dies at that time he has no bonds on account of which he is to be born in this world .
(AN V 114,6-14) AN10.61
1. Avijjàsutta:Ignorance

http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pit ... ggo-e.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
61. Bhikkhus, a beginning to ignorance cannot be pointed out, `Before this there was no ignorance, it occured afterwards. Bhikkhus, it is pointed out: On account of this, there is ignorance.
...
Bhikkhus, like water from the big drops of rain, that fall on top of the mountains coming down to the lowlands fill up mountain creeks and streams. They in turn fill up the small rivers and the huge rivers and fill up the great ocean. And that water becomes the supportive condition for the ocean.

In the same manner bhikkhus, associating Great beings leads to listening to the correct Teaching. Listening to the correct Teaching leads to faith. Faith leads to wsie attention. Wise attention leads to mindful awareness Mindful awareness leads to restrained mental faculties. Restrained mental faculties lead to the three right behaviours. The three right behaviours lead to the four establishments of mindfulness. The four establishments of mindfulness lead to the seven enlightenment factorsòhe seven enlightenment factors lead to knowledge and release. Thus these are the supportive conditions for knowledge and release.

vinasp
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Re: SN 12.23 Upanisa Sutta: Discourse on Supporting Conditions

Post by vinasp » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:09 am

Hi everyone,

I have just noticed that the same sequence of terms is found in the
first sutta of the Anguttara Nikaya, Part V The Book of Tens.

PTS Gradual Sayings V page 1. [ Translated by F. L. Woodward.]

The terms are; good conduct, freedom from remorse, joy, rapture, calm,
happiness, concentration, knowing and seeing things as they really are,
revulsion and fading of interest, release by knowing and seeing.

Unfortunately, it is not yet available on ATI.

Regards, Vincent.

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Re: SN 12.23 Upanisa Sutta: Discourse on Supporting Conditions

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:34 am

Hi Vincent,

I gave a link to that sutta here:
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... ad#p177957" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's in the Nyanaponika Thera and Bhikkhu Bodhi BPS collection. Specifically:
http://bps.lk/olib/wh/wh208-p.html#27.StepbyStep" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Mike

vinasp
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Re: SN 12.23 Upanisa Sutta: Discourse on Supporting Conditions

Post by vinasp » Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:11 am

Hi Mike,

Sorry! I did not notice that it had already been pointed out.

The same theme is developed in the next four suttas.
Number 2 is very interesting, it says that no effort is required, and that
all these things arise automatically for "one who is virtuous."
Even concentration and liberation are said to follow automatically.

I am not sure what to make of it.

Regards, Vincent.

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