Bedbugs and the 1st precept

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Khalil Bodhi
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Bed Bugs

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Hello Everyone,

I am currently in the unenviable position of dealing with a possible bed bug infestation. I saw one walking across my stairs in broad daylight three days ago and my life has been turned upside down. Besides the obvious difficulties and expenses I'm incurring in preparing my home for the exterminators I am very concerned with my ongoing breach of the first precepts. I recall Ven. Thanissaro recommending a passage to be chanted from the suttas or commentary in such a situation. Any thoughts are appreciated as I am deeply disturbed by the situation but have a young family that I am duty bound to protect. Mettaya :heart:
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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seeker242
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by seeker242 »

Have you ever seen this? :smile:

Image
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Ben
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Ben »

I feel for you KB. As you know, I had to deal with a similar situation recently.
Sometimes we are placed in situations where we have to make very hard decisions.
And I know that for you, extermination would be an absolute last resort.
kind regards,

Ben
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Hickersonia
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Hickersonia »

I'm glad that I'm not the only one that has concern over this type of issue...

I have no easy answer either, but if I end up in the situation where I have this sort of problem again (not bed bugs specifically, but ants and other such little beings), I intend to act without hatred or malice while removing as many of them as I can non-violently before executing my obligations to uphold my landlord's expectations of a reasonably insect-free property.

Life isn't always fair. Neither apparently is karma, disease, or death. :(

As for the posted sign (thank you seeker242), I imagine it is becoming increasingly difficult to avoid such things as local ordinances, state regulatory requirements, and insurance policies start requiring it...
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bodom
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by bodom »

A few months ago are entire apartment complex was over run with bed bugs. Me my wife and two young children were waking up every morning with red itching spots all over our bodies from being bitten every night. Sometimes I would wake in the middle of the night to find them crawling on my newborn son. We spent a lot of money replacing beds and furniture to no avail. Finally we had to have pest control come and take care of the problem. My suggestion is not to wait for the problem to go away because it absolutely will only get worse. Do what you need to do for your family.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Hickersonia
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Hickersonia »

Expanding on this a bit... it has occurred to me that if I want to buy a house, I have to have a termite inspection done in order to get a loan. If there are termites, they have to be exterminated as part of the process, and then (regardless of the current presence of termites) poisons must be put down to kill them in the future to insure the finance against potential losses from termite damage. So, unless I have a huge currency stock [I don't], financing a house (at least where I live) requires me to violate the first precept.

Similarly, if we have a bed bug infestation in our home, my wife has to remain home from her work at her preschool until a professional exterminator can certify in writing that our home is bed-bug free. This, of course, has to be done in a timely manner or she faces the loss of her job (thankfully this has not been a concern for us yet!).

I have come to the conclusion that being forced by someone else to perform the act somewhat [not entirely] mitigates the violation, but I am not going to say that my conclusion is entirely correct except in that it helps me sleep at night... :-/
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Thank you everyone for your posts and advice. I really appreciate your concern and well wishes. Mettaya :heart:
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

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Cittasanto
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Cittasanto »

The Household life is full of dust (sorry)

it is something you need to take care of, it is unfortunate, but, remember the precept is mainly concerned with human life and corresponds to the Parajika more so than the paccitia, although the commentaries to the vinaya for this rule for novices also deals with bed bug eggs and it is fair to say the paccitia is included to a degree for lay people also.

but at the end of the day is there really any other option to get rid of them?
you obviously can not let them stay, so what are the options, and are they viable?

why not try to ask them to go and tell them what you will need to do if they do not leave on their own during a sitting? then start vacuum thouraly everywhere, and once you have finished, do some form of memorial specifically for them?

I have tried posting this several times now :tantrum:
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But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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Khalil Bodhi
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Khalil Bodhi »

Hi Cittasanto,

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely give it a try. :heart:
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
-Dhp. 183

The Stoic Buddhist: https://www.quora.com/q/dwxmcndlgmobmeu ... pOR2p0uAdH
My Practice Blog:
http://khalilbodhi.wordpress.com
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Cittasanto
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Cittasanto »

Khalil Bodhi wrote:Hi Cittasanto,

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely give it a try. :heart:
I know of some New Age/Wicca inclined people in the UK do this with long-tails and mice, in the UK at least so there is no reason it wouldn't work for bugs if it works for them?

I have heard there is a cemetary in Japan with momorials that companies put up dedicated to the workers who lost their lives through some means while in employment in their firm, and a company which specialises in termites had put up a memorial for the termites and said that this is a needed service and a means of livelihood, not a personal thing to the termites, and may they gain a fortunate birth.
obviously not exact :) but if nothing else it is considerate, and showing some form of respect. I will PM you with something in a moment.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Fede
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Fede »

Cittasanto wrote:.......once you have finished, do some form of memorial specifically for them?

I have tried posting this several times now :tantrum:
Well, you finally made it.... :twothumbsup:

Kahil, Lama Surya Das recounts in one of his 'Awakening Trilogy' books that a USA-based monastery, which i believe had actually simply been established in an old and disused school, was over-run with cockroaches...
At first, the monks tried to welcome their 'little brothers' and make allowances for their being there.... but after a while, visitor numbers began falling off, retreats were badly attended, and people simply stopped visiting in adequate numbers - the little critters became pests, and soon after that, became a menace.
in spite of every different effort made by all the monks, to clean the place from top to bottom, and (indeed, as cittasanto suggests) talking to them, entreating them to reduce their numbers or leave), the problem reached critical point.....
the monks sent word back to the 'mother monastery' (in Nepal, if memory serves me well) and eventually, they reluctantly decided that the 'roaches had to go, and the exterminators were brought in.
the monks offered many mantras and "prayers" wishing the cockroaches a better, more auspicious and more fortunate re-birth - but that still meant killing them.

It had to be done.

Your bedbugs?
Ditto.
It has to be done.

Living according to the Precepts and The 8fold path is one of the hardest things we can ask of ourselves.

I maintain it's far more difficult to do the right thing, and adhere to such guidance, than it is to follow the 'rules' of any other religion I know, simply because *The Buck Stops Here*.
But it does not entail bearing guilt, or whupping ourselves over the head with a metaphorical Buddhist frying pan (or skillet, as some call it....).
It means understanding that Stress is caused, and can be transcended, through correct practice and application.
And correct practice and application, is often unsavoury, unpleasant and challenging.
but it's still 'Right'.

With much metta,

Fede.

:namaste:
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Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Modus.Ponens »

There is a poison for flees that you give to your pets, in form of pills, that don't kill the flees. It only sterilizes them. And they soon disapear. Maybe there is a poison with the same efects your exterminator can use. :shrug:
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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Samvega
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Samvega »

First:

Remember that samsara is messy. You do what you have to do to minimize your samsaric footprint, but in the end your have responsibilities to yourself and your family.

Ernest Becker says:


*Existence, for all organismic life, is a constant struggle to feed -- a struggle to incorporate whatever other organisms they can fit into their mouths and press down their gullets without choking. Seen in these stark terms, life on this planet is a gory spectacle, a science-fiction nightmare in which digestive tracts fitted with teeth at one end are tearing away at whatever flesh they can reach, and at the other end are piling up the fuming waste excrement as they move along in search of more flesh

*...each organism raises its head over a field of corpses, smiles into the sun, and declares life good.

Second:

The more you waffle on what you have to do, the more insect you're going to kill as the infestation grows. Be compassionate and take action ASAP before your killing a million beings instead of a hundred.
EmptyShadow
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by EmptyShadow »

Khalil Bodhi wrote:Hello Everyone,

I am currently in the unenviable position of dealing with a possible bed bug infestation. I saw one walking across my stairs in broad daylight three days ago and my life has been turned upside down. Besides the obvious difficulties and expenses I'm incurring in preparing my home for the exterminators I am very concerned with my ongoing breach of the first precepts. I recall Ven. Thanissaro recommending a passage to be chanted from the suttas or commentary in such a situation. Any thoughts are appreciated as I am deeply disturbed by the situation but have a young family that I am duty bound to protect. Mettaya :heart:
How big infestations you guys are talking about?
The way i deal with bugs, mainly fleas is by catching them and releasing them outside the house.And in my life i dont remeber ever being attacked by hundreds of fleas at once :tongue: ,so that the usual way of getting rid of them to be insufficient.
Also the bed bugs kinda dont jump so thay just sit there just waiting to be moved outside, and you dont need hunting skills to catch them :jedi:
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Mr Man
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Re: Bed Bugs

Post by Mr Man »

Khalil Bodhi wrote: I recall Ven. Thanissaro recommending a passage to be chanted from the suttas or commentary in such a situation.
This possibly?

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on.html#s5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RysZqfstJ0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Mr Man on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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