A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
Bankei
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by Bankei »

Ytrog wrote:
Bankei wrote:The anagarika is a modern invention. Just a person with a shaved head.

Why not just become a monk? How many anagarikas do you read about in the Sutta?
I want to become a monk eventually, however in the tradition I want to ordain in you need to be an Anagarika for at least a year to become a Samanera. After another year you might become a Bhikku.
That's innovative.

You could ordain elsewhere and then go and live in a monastery of that tradition.

Good luck

Bankei
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James the Giant
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by James the Giant »

Bankei wrote: That's innovative.
As I understand it, the role of anagarika has gained prominence in the 20th century because of the spread of Buddhism into new lands, especially the west.
It is designed as a probation period for those new to the tradition, so the sangha's time isn't wasted by starry-eyed, idealistic folk who have no real idea of what monastic life is really like.
They have to do six months or a year as an anagarika, and at the end of that they presumably have gained some idea of what they'd be getting into if they ordained.
It is also good because it stops slackers coming to Thailand, ordaining easily within a few weeks, getting a bhikkhu's visa, then walking out of the monastery in blue jeans and having a year-long holiday.
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Cittasanto
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by Cittasanto »

Bankei wrote:The anagarika is a modern invention. Just a person with a shaved head.

Why not just become a monk? How many anagarikas do you read about in the Sutta?
Actually the anagarika isn't just a modern invention!
besides the fact that any Buddhist mendicant can be called an anagarika which literally means homeless one (Luang Por Liem calls all Buddhist mendicants Anagarikas BTW), and an anagarika is to an extent nothing more than a white 'clothed' lay follower of the Buddha, and one who lives by the eight precepts all the time, this is mentioned within the texts, very infrequently but it is there.

but anyone not trying to live the five precepts as a minimum standard, can not be called a follower of the Buddha, a practitioner of the Dhamma-Vinaya, just because how someone is/wanting to practice isn't specifically within the texts, doesn't mean it isn't in-line with the texts or the Buddhas intention in setting up the training.

but as James mentiones it is a try before you buy deal, get a fuller idea of life in that type of environment (although as I understand it, in the west it is always a minimum of 1 year, in Thailand it is quicker for other reasons.)
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But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
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Bankei
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by Bankei »

James the Giant wrote:
Bankei wrote: That's innovative.
As I understand it, the role of anagarika has gained prominence in the 20th century because of the spread of Buddhism into new lands, especially the west.
It is designed as a probation period for those new to the tradition, so the sangha's time isn't wasted by starry-eyed, idealistic folk who have no real idea of what monastic life is really like.
They have to do six months or a year as an anagarika, and at the end of that they presumably have gained some idea of what they'd be getting into if they ordained.
It is also good because it stops slackers coming to Thailand, ordaining easily within a few weeks, getting a bhikkhu's visa, then walking out of the monastery in blue jeans and having a year-long holiday.
Point taken.

The vast majority of temples in thailand have no anagirka requirements. One could be ordained as a Bhikkhu in one ceremony - layperson to samenara to Bhikkhu.

Getting a visa (in Thailand) is a separate issue, one I am not familiar with, but it is not a simple process even for monks with many years. The op mentioned a monastery in England from memory, so it may not be an issue for him. Wonder what the situation is in Thailand with the anagarikas and the issuing of visas - They would not be considered monastics.

As for them being a modern invention, maybe not really - doesn't one of the Asoka edicts (The so-called schism edict) mention something about kicking out trouble makers and making them wear white??

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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by Disillusioned »

Hello Ytrog,

I spent the past 18 months living at a Thai Forest monastery and was ordained as an anagarika for the last year of my stay. Typically you have to stay at the monastery for a while before they ordain you as an anagarika. They want to make sure you're for real about it, because a lot of people come in saying they want to ordain and then they end up leaving after only a few weeks. I had to stay for about 9 months.

I've heard interesting things about Chithurst, the way they rotate where people live every six weeks. Are you familiar with that? Also I had the chance to meet Ajahn Sucito. He's a very sweet monk.

In terms of preparation, I'd just keep the five precepts and meditate. Before I left I kept the eight and it turned out to be more of a burden than anything else. It's not that practical sometimes in society. And honestly it's not that difficult of a transition to make when you do get to the monastery.

That's just my perspective.
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by Ytrog »

Disillusioned wrote:Hello Ytrog,

I spent the past 18 months living at a Thai Forest monastery and was ordained as an anagarika for the last year of my stay. Typically you have to stay at the monastery for a while before they ordain you as an anagarika. They want to make sure you're for real about it, because a lot of people come in saying they want to ordain and then they end up leaving after only a few weeks. I had to stay for about 9 months.

I've heard interesting things about Chithurst, the way they rotate where people live every six weeks. Are you familiar with that? Also I had the chance to meet Ajahn Sucito. He's a very sweet monk.

In terms of preparation, I'd just keep the five precepts and meditate. Before I left I kept the eight and it turned out to be more of a burden than anything else. It's not that practical sometimes in society. And honestly it's not that difficult of a transition to make when you do get to the monastery.

That's just my perspective.
Yes, I know about the rotation. A wonderful way to prevent attachment to a place to live and keep some idea of wandering while living in a monastery. I've also met Ajahn Sucitto and he was indeed very kind and seemed well versed in the Dhamma. :anjali:

I too decided that a constant keeping of eight precepts while still having such things a job would cause more frustration than that it would be helpful. I can hardly ignore the music that plays at the office and play music in my car as that keeps me awake and prevents me from driving into the guardrail. I do meditate for an hour in the morning and some time in the evening with the intention of establishing a baseline of two hours sitting meditation a day. I keep the five precepts as a practice and it actually becomes easier to keep them (mostly concerns the 3th and the 4th) the more I meditate each day. I also try to do everything mindfully during the day.
I noticed that keeping the eight precepts in a monastery is quite natural although admittedly there were some difficulties with not trying to chat to people (I'm very curious).
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by befriend »

anagarikas cannot have jobs?
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
befriend wrote:anagarikas cannot have jobs?
No. Anagarika literally means "homeless one".

On the other hand, a samanera may be able to? They're able to handle money (unless of course, they've taken an extra precept forbidding that).

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Retro. :)
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Retro,

I believe you have it backwards. Anigarikas generally seem to take the 8 precepts of a lay person, a samanera definitely has 10 (which includes the money precept).

:anjali:
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by retrofuturist »

Quite likely!

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by Cittasanto »

An Anagarika and Samanera both can not have jobs the life is a job.

but there is no reason an Anagarika could not have a job outside of the monastery to help support themselves, if necessary, but a Samanera couldn't unless it was something like what Bhikkhu Boddhi or Venerable Analayo has at university.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by befriend »

why cant they have jobs? does the 8 precepts says something about not working? can i informally take the 8 precepts and still have a job. or is working breaking one of the precepts? metta, befriend.
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Re: A proper preparation for becoming an anagarika

Post by Cittasanto »

befriend wrote:why cant they have jobs? does the 8 precepts says something about not working? can i informally take the 8 precepts and still have a job. or is working breaking one of the precepts? metta, befriend.
An Anagarika is not the same as a Lay-person taking the 8 precepts on a long term basis, they are essentially the same as a postulate in christian monastic circles or in some cases a form of monastic at a monastery, so would have certain duties etc there.

there are some who have chosen it as a way of life as they find it beneficial, there have been 15/20 vassa Anagarikas in the west I have heard about, and in Asia they (although under a different name depending on the country) are Anagarikas due to a desire to be a monastic but unable to take on the robes due to some reason (possibly due to a physical problem like a missing leg,) but have the same robes, just white.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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