Yes, beliefs are a real nuisance.Buckwheat wrote: So, basically, I'm saying you already believe in some things that are not true, and don't even know it.
Spiny ( I think )
Yes, beliefs are a real nuisance.Buckwheat wrote: So, basically, I'm saying you already believe in some things that are not true, and don't even know it.
Actually, it was from "Through the Looking-Glass" ...Buckwheat wrote:Haha, nice one Spiny. My comment was a generalization inspired by Kare's "Alice in Wonderland" quote ....
Hi Zom. I saw this post of yours quoted over on the Great Rebirth Debate thread, and I went looking for a sutta in which the Buddha says, "If there is no rebirth, there is no living of the holy life" and despite some time spent on Pali searches, I cannot find it. I wonder if you would be able to provide me with a citation for that quote?Zom wrote:As Buddha said - "if there is no rebirth, there is no living the holy life". The explanation of this statement is this: if there in only one life - no need to practise deep renunciation from the world. No need to be a monk. No need to accumulate kamma, no need to develop faculties. Everyone will end up quite soon with one and the same end. The best option will be to get a lot of money and enjoy sensual pleasures.
In the Kalama sutta he says the exact opposite of Zom's "quote": that even if one can not accept rebirth they will still benefit in this lifetime from non-greed, non-hate, and non-delusion.nowheat wrote:Hi Zom. I saw this post of yours quoted over on the Great Rebirth Debate thread, and I went looking for a sutta in which the Buddha says, "If there is no rebirth, there is no living of the holy life" and despite some time spent on Pali searches, I cannot find it. I wonder if you would be able to provide me with a citation for that quote?Zom wrote:As Buddha said - "if there is no rebirth, there is no living the holy life". The explanation of this statement is this: if there in only one life - no need to practise deep renunciation from the world. No need to be a monk. No need to accumulate kamma, no need to develop faculties. Everyone will end up quite soon with one and the same end. The best option will be to get a lot of money and enjoy sensual pleasures.
Thanks in advance.
You should also read the Apanaka Sutta in the Majjhima Nikaya.Buckwheat wrote:
In the Kalama sutta he says the exact opposite of Zom's "quote": that even if one can not accept rebirth they will still benefit in this lifetime from non-greed, non-hate, and non-delusion.
And when you do, note that the Apanaka Sutta comes with a strong logical structure as its basis, and the way that logical structure is broken by the "B" sections. The overall structure is one of non-dogmatic thought, and the pieces that break the logic -- and make the whole thing pointless -- are the elements of dogmatic thought.Ben wrote:Hi Buckwheat,
You should also read the Apanaka Sutta in the Majjhima Nikaya.Buckwheat wrote:
In the Kalama sutta he says the exact opposite of Zom's "quote": that even if one can not accept rebirth they will still benefit in this lifetime from non-greed, non-hate, and non-delusion.
Very good. But, according to these very useful teachings of the Buddha, you must see the reality of what you're experiencing. The reality is, you have difficulty believing in rebirth and godly beings because almost everyone in your society frowns upon or rejects that idea. Almost everyone in the Buddha's time held the view that rebirth and godly beings were very normal and a FACT of life. The reality of the situation is, society and also the way you are raised in that society has conditioned you very much, and this society is always all around you--people, family, friends, TELEVISION, books, religions. Some people can't believe that there isn't a God. Some people can't believe that there is. The reason you can't believe in the powers of the Buddha is because you didn't see them--makes perfect sense--but it's always because your society and your upraising does NOT accept those ideas. Simple fact of reality. Obvious if you focus on your here and now experience.pedro1985 wrote:I try to practice what is written in the suttas (http://www.accesstoinsight.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), because I think it is useful.
But even though the suttas contain a lot of wisdom, I still keep finding unbelievable things about:
- a world of gods, deva's
- rebirth
- remembering past lives
- magical powers (angulimala sutta)
I tried keeping an open mind about that rebirth is true and that gods and deva's who are mentioned in the suttas really exist.
But after reading about them alot, I noticed that I honestly cannot believe that rebirth, gods, deva's, etc are real. Neither do I believe that the Buddha had any magical powers. I believe he was a man without any magical powers at all, who was not able to fly, nor could he read someones thoughts from a large distance.
Nevertheless, the rest of what is explained in the suttas: 8-fold path, 4 noble truths, meditation; are very usefull. I try to follow this teachings every day.
I practice what is explained in the suttas because the way of life that is explained in the suttas is the most stable and usefull way of life (in my opinion).
Does anyone feel similar about this?
Please note that it is not my purpose to challenge anybodies beliefs in rebirth.
Exactly. That's very helpful!Brizzy wrote:Surely for most of us it is a gradual process. I personally believe in other worlds. In the beginning I believed in the creator God but, with time and life experience I realised that this could not be. Then I committed to Buddha and had a half hearted believe in 'magical' things. Then over time I proved to myself more & more that the Buddha's teachings were true and could be verified. It is now, not such a tremendous stretch of faith to believe the rest of what the Buddha taught was true (magical things). So even though I have not actually proven to myself that other world's exist, my faith in them has grown with my understanding of the Dhamma. I personally think that the best attitude towards such things is 'lets see' and not be so definitive in our belief or disbelief of such things until we have actually verified or negated the Buddha's teachings.
Metta