Are theravada practicioners more accomplished?

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nobody12345
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:05 am

Re: Are theravada practicioners more accomplished?

Post by nobody12345 »

Hi manasikara.

Regarding my comment that you quoted (pure land and etc.) is not the one directed at you.
I was speaking in general in terms of later development in Buddhism that went to dangerous territory.
If it came off as a comment regarding your post, my apologies.

Metta.
manasikara wrote:
imaginos wrote: I know others invented certain figures to promote false maps that the battle can be avoided and you can just think of **** and go to the pure land and etc.
Sounds sweet and enticing but it's not Dhamma.
Sham Dhamma sells because it's sweet.
Hi imaginos,
please reread what I actually wrote...this little comment you made here has nothing to do with what I wrote, but so long as everyone reads what I actually wrote, they will also see this, so I'm not going to get upset by it. But please exercise care in what you say.

Yes there is a battle of sorts. And there can be some difficult times walking this Path. But as others have pointed out, it's not the practice of the Path that causes the pain, but rather our own stubborn clinging to defilements. The Path itself is sweet, we are the ones who make it seem bitter, imo.

with metta.
nobody12345
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Re: Are theravada practicioners more accomplished?

Post by nobody12345 »

To others who commented.
My comment on the part of difficulties of attaining Arahantship in recent times (i.e. put their lives at stake) does not mean that the people who are aiming for Sotapanaship need to put their lives at stakes.
I mentioned that part to emphasize difficulties in this day and age to follow the path.
I do aware many movements come up with their programs with 'easiness' as its selling point.
For an example, there's a movement to give express passage to the pure land per amount of donation of the individual member.
This happened in the Buddhist country which I will not name here.
I do feel there have been many movements (from all over the world) that sell themselves as Dhamma and put followers wellbeing into grave dangers.
And I do feel it's important to speak/warn on this.
And whenever a new sham Dhamma rises and expands, it always use the people's natural tendency (myself include) of choosing easiness and rejecting any of exertion/teeth clenching/ suffering and etc.
So I think it is valuable to remind oneself whenever something sounds too sweet or too easy it can be a bear trap, especially it has additional ingredients which were never discussed by the Buddha.
However, it seems my speech did not benefit any of you so I will not discuss any more about Theravada or Sham Dhamma (and its selling point) issue.
If any of you took it personal for whatever reason, my apologies as well.
From now on, I will not get involved with any futher discussion regarding Theravada and Sham Dhamma.

Metta.
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manas
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Are theravada practicioners more accomplished?

Post by manas »

Hi imaginos,

thank you for clarifying, I see now that your reference to people offering an easy ride to 'pure land' was not directed at me at all. Sorry, I misunderstood and I was overreacting a little.

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
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Anagarika
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Re: Are theravada practicioners more accomplished?

Post by Anagarika »

My thought on the question as to "Are theravada practicioners more accomplished?" might to be first offer the idea that maybe accomplishments are not the focus of the practice, now should there be, to my mind, a competition between traditions over which tradition offers the "fast track" to enlightenment.

Having said that, one factor that is compelling to me is that Theravada has as its foundation the Tipitaka, and at the center of the foundation, the Vinaya and the Suttas. This foundation is what Buddha taught. If one is to follow the Buddha path, then it seems to me best, and most authentic, to study and practice what Buddha actually taught.

My comment above is not intended to detract from Zen or Vajrayana, but it seems an undisputed fact that these traditions are disconnected to a greater or lesser degree from the BuddhaDhamma. These traditions assume a platform of Dhamma, but they seem to me to be exotic or esoteric derivations of Dhamma, and not true Dhamma.

So, are Theravada practitioners more accomplished? Well, to my mind what the Buddha taught and instructed might be considered a roadmap for life and for release from dukkha. Theravada is a practice that follows the directions set forth on the roadmap. Other traditions might claim to be a tourist map to the same location, but these maps deviate from the course, send one over potholes in the road, create rest stops that are unnecessary, pass celebrity homes, direct one to sensual gardens, and some deviate so far as to lose their sense of direction completely.

If I'm on a journey and need to buy a map, I'll buy the one created by the original and authentic cartographer.
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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Are theravada practicioners more accomplished?

Post by Spiny O'Norman »

nachiketas wrote:My question sounds a bit shallow and silly, but don't we actually think like this when comparing ways?
Yes, it's natural to compare, but that can only be done on the basis of personal experience, not on other peoples' opinions or propaganda from various traditions.
I think that different approaches / traditions suit different personalities, but also that it's difficult to generalise about this.
I think that generally speaking, progress in any tradition is proportionate to the amount of time and energy that we invest in actually practising, so some commitment is required.

Spiny
nobody12345
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Re: Are theravada practicioners more accomplished?

Post by nobody12345 »

manasikara wrote:Hi imaginos,

thank you for clarifying, I see now that your reference to people offering an easy ride to 'pure land' was not directed at me at all. Sorry, I misunderstood and I was overreacting a little.

:anjali:
Hi manasikara.
Don't worry.
My speech was definitely very harsh/stern in nature (although it was not directed to members of this forum) so it's natural to draw certain reactions.
I tend to do that since I take certain foreign elements of Buddhist schools as very very dangerous thing.
After all, the Buddha stated that the Dhamma will banish in the future due to the influx of foreign/outsider's elements.
But my strong sentiment is directly toward to the ones who played key roles in terms of developing alien Dhamma and making profit out of it.
(I do take it as direct attack on the Buddha himself.)
And thank you for reminding me that I need to work on the skill of speech.
Yes, it would be not so good if one speaks to defend Dhamma yet lacks the skill to smoothly navigate the audience to promote their welfare.

Metta.
nobody12345
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:05 am

Re: Are theravada practicioners more accomplished?

Post by nobody12345 »

BuddhaSoup wrote: So, are Theravada practitioners more accomplished? Well, to my mind what the Buddha taught and instructed might be considered a roadmap for life and for release from dukkha. Theravada is a practice that follows the directions set forth on the roadmap. Other traditions might claim to be a tourist map to the same location, but these maps deviate from the course, send one over potholes in the road, create rest stops that are unnecessary, pass celebrity homes, direct one to sensual gardens, and some deviate so far as to lose their sense of direction completely.

If I'm on a journey and need to buy a map, I'll buy the one created by the original and authentic cartographer.
Thank you for the skillful metaphor.

Metta.
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