after giving this much thought, i have decided to apply for the course. i had planned to "jump right in" a.s.a.p., but some good advice here has led me to decide to wait a little longer, so i could have a little more practice under my belt, and give me time to read more of the suttas to achive better footing before taking on the 10-day session.
the whole "could be a cult" warnings do not bother me, as i think it would be easy to call ANY retreat such as this "cult-ish".
my brother, who is also going to take the course, wisely pointed out that his experiences with A.A., as well as the u.s. military, could be called "cult-ish". as could be some kid's summer "bible study" camp. it seems that anything someone else doesn't understand could be called a "cult", so that doesn't worry me.
i am looking forward to it, but i am very aware that i need to "get ready" for it. much more reading, much more study and much much more practice need to be done before this undertaking.
in a nut shell, all i hope to get out of it is to better my understanding of vipassana. i can see nothing negative coming from the experience. as long as i learn something, even if only learning something about myself, it will be well worth it.
thank you all for your input, and we will let this interesting discussion continue.
kind regards,
delf
10-day goenka retreat
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
Don't worry too much.delf7 wrote: i am looking forward to it, but i am very aware that i need to "get ready" for it. much more reading, much more study and much much more practice need to be done before this undertaking.
S. N. Goenka says to absolute beginners: "Don't prepare."
Afaik he himself did not practice meditation at all before going to his first U Ba Khin retreat.
The 10-day courses do not require any preparation or knowledge.
The courses are the preparation for the daily practice.
S. N. Goenka uses the term "Dhamma kindergarden" for the courses.
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
Thank you very much Ben for your nice reply.
As David said above "a little more practice" of meditation is not required to take the first course in Vipassana of U Ba Khin tradition. However, practicing other basic aspects of Dhamma (like Śīla), and preparing oneself to be open to this method before taking the course would certainly help.delf7 wrote:after giving this much thought, i have decided to apply for the course. i had planned to "jump right in" a.s.a.p., but some good advice here has led me to decide to wait a little longer, so i could have a little more practice under my belt, and give me time to read more of the suttas to achive better footing before taking on the 10-day session.
Yes. I could never understand how Vipassana in Goenkaji's tradition could be a "cult". I have met many spiritual traditions, and I would say that this tradition is one of the least "cultish", or not "cultish" at all. As Ben said the request for commitment is a not bad thing, if you are really serious. Of course, being a big organization there could be a few people whose behavior or attitude may cause suspicion, but these are just exceptions.the whole "could be a cult" warnings do not bother me, as i think it would be easy to call ANY retreat such as this "cult-ish".
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Re: 10-day goenka retreat
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Re: 10-day goenka retreat
Hi delf7;
My apologies for posting a link for an answer, but I've written these responses a few times:
tips for when going on a Goenka retreat
I've been to two Goenka retreats in the U.S. back in the 90s. I've read the criticisms on the internet of the Goenka retreats. I don't think they are fair. I say that as someone who doesn't care for the organization, as I see it as having an authoritarian and sycophantic subculture ( which will not be an issue for you going on a 10 day retreat ). The retreats did a lot for me and can do a lot of for you. Just don't take that center's take on meditation and Buddhism as the last word. If you stay with Buddhist meditation you will eventually want to attend retreats from different organizations and study Buddhism on your own.
My apologies for posting a link for an answer, but I've written these responses a few times:
tips for when going on a Goenka retreat
I've been to two Goenka retreats in the U.S. back in the 90s. I've read the criticisms on the internet of the Goenka retreats. I don't think they are fair. I say that as someone who doesn't care for the organization, as I see it as having an authoritarian and sycophantic subculture ( which will not be an issue for you going on a 10 day retreat ). The retreats did a lot for me and can do a lot of for you. Just don't take that center's take on meditation and Buddhism as the last word. If you stay with Buddhist meditation you will eventually want to attend retreats from different organizations and study Buddhism on your own.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
Just make sure you are prepared for the chanting.
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
CHANTING?
they really stress the whole "noble silence" thing, so i figured it'd be quiet. or, i was HOPEING.
they really stress the whole "noble silence" thing, so i figured it'd be quiet. or, i was HOPEING.
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
Hello all,
Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8667" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm booked for another Goenka retreat 26 Dec - 6 Jan at Pomona Queensland - hopefully work will give me leave.
with metta
Chris
Goenka retreat- aversion towards Chanting
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8667" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm booked for another Goenka retreat 26 Dec - 6 Jan at Pomona Queensland - hopefully work will give me leave.
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
Hi delf,
There are a few minutes of chants at te beginning and at the end of each group sit. The chanting is done by SN Goenka and no one else.
Aversion to the chanting is a common reaction.
kind regards,
Ben
The chanting occurs, mainly, during the 4.30AM-6.30AM meditation in the hall and it is SN Goenka chanting different suttas.delf7 wrote:CHANTING?
they really stress the whole "noble silence" thing, so i figured it'd be quiet. or, i was HOPEING.
There are a few minutes of chants at te beginning and at the end of each group sit. The chanting is done by SN Goenka and no one else.
Aversion to the chanting is a common reaction.
kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
I intend to sign up for my 1st Goenka course in March. I'm impressed with the testimonials I've come across and like the fact that it starts of with 3 days of Samatha. It seems more orthodox then the "dry vipassana" approach. Although I'm aware that the chanting grates on some peoples nerves, I appreciate that it represents an anchor in the Theravada tradition, without which it becomes just another secular meditation system.
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
You got me excited... I really like chanting. It gets some blood flow, forces some deep breathing, connects the thoughts to the body, has a soothing feeling, etc. Then I realized you mean I get to listen to somebody chant on a recording.... that sounds horrible!!
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
Don't let it worry you. Do what everyone else does during the chanting - meditate. If you find it really disagreeable you will probably be allowed to meditate in your room during the 4.30AM-6.30AM sitting. Also keep in mind that part of the 'training' is to develop equanimity!Buckwheat wrote:You got me excited... I really like chanting. It gets some blood flow, forces some deep breathing, connects the thoughts to the body, has a soothing feeling, etc. Then I realized you mean I get to listen to somebody chant on a recording.... that sounds horrible!!
All the best,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
i shall see (or hear) for myself, but now that i think about it, the chanting may be a good way to drown out other, more subtle, noises that actually may be more annoying, like someone's nose whistling, a chair creaking, etc...
and beings the chanting is only a recording of the teacher puts my mind at ease. i was envisioning a room full of people all chanting thier own things, which i think would be quite distracting.
regardless, i have applied for a course and am looking forward to hearing back from them to find out if i am accepted.
delf
and beings the chanting is only a recording of the teacher puts my mind at ease. i was envisioning a room full of people all chanting thier own things, which i think would be quite distracting.
regardless, i have applied for a course and am looking forward to hearing back from them to find out if i am accepted.
delf
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Re: 10-day goenka retreat
My first retreat, whenever Goenka was chanting, I could not help but think of:
At some point, I burst out laughing because I could not get this image out of my head.
At some point, I burst out laughing because I could not get this image out of my head.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.
Sutta Nipāta 3.710
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.
Sutta Nipāta 3.710
Re: 10-day goenka retreat
FINALLY !
i have been waiting 10 days to hear the news, and i just recieved e-mail from the meditation center informing me that my application has been accepted !!!
it is still a few months away, but i am pretty excited about it.
thanx to all who gave me advice & information about the retreat.
kind regards,
delf
i have been waiting 10 days to hear the news, and i just recieved e-mail from the meditation center informing me that my application has been accepted !!!
it is still a few months away, but i am pretty excited about it.
thanx to all who gave me advice & information about the retreat.
kind regards,
delf