Sutta about the ordination of women?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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DNS
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Re: Sutta about the ordination of women?

Post by DNS »

robertk wrote: That article is truly a joke. I recommend it as an example of the lowest level of scholarship.
robertk wrote: The evidence of this Mr. Mettanando is scurrilous (my opinion) .
Although you may disagree with him, he actually is highly educated:
Mettanando Bhikkhu is a Thai Buddhist monk and a former physician. He studied at Chulalongkorn University, Oxford and Harvard, and received a PhD from Hamburg. He is special adviser on Buddhist affairs to the secretary-general of the World Conference of Religions for Peace.
Apparently he is an M.D. and a Ph.D. and earned those degrees at prestigious, accredited universities. Why would you call him Mr. and not Dr. or at least venerable?

The venerable Dr. might be incorrect on some of his views (in your opinion), but that doesn't remove any of his scholarly education degrees or titles, including venerable.
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Re: Sutta about the ordination of women?

Post by robertk »

David N. Snyder wrote:
robertk wrote: That article is truly a joke. I recommend it as an example of the lowest level of scholarship.
robertk wrote: The evidence of this Mr. Mettanando is scurrilous (my opinion) .
Although you may disagree with him, he actually is highly educated:
Mettanando Bhikkhu is a Thai Buddhist monk and a former physician. He studied at Chulalongkorn University, Oxford and Harvard, and received a PhD from Hamburg. He is special adviser on Buddhist affairs to the secretary-general of the World Conference of Religions for Peace.
Apparently he is an M.D. and a Ph.D. and earned those degrees at prestigious, accredited universities. Why would you call him Mr. and not Dr. or at least venerable?

The venerable Dr. might be incorrect on some of his views (in your opinion), but that doesn't remove any of his scholarly education degrees or titles, including venerable.
I earned my Phd at a good uni too, does everyone want to start calling me Dr. robert on this list?

It would be inappropriate, I think, to call an ex-monk venerable.

Anyway I have no respect at all for this ex-venerable Dr.
He says the ancient Theravada bhikkhu were involved in a conspiracy of vast proportions to change the Tipitaka to suit their nefarious purposes. The Doctor is a defamer of the arahats, and a distorter of the teachings. He should be shunned and shamed at every opportunity, the man is a clown. (with all due respect to his academic titles of course). In my humble opinion .
Last edited by robertk on Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sutta about the ordination of women?

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robertk wrote: I earned my Phd at a good uni too, does everyone want to start calling me Dr. robert on this list?

It would be very inapproapriate , i think, to call and ex-monk venerable.
Okay, fair enough, I didn't know he was no longer a monk; the article was a few years back when he was a monk.

But Dr. Mettanando did not turn in his degrees with his robe.
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Re: Sutta about the ordination of women?

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Fede wrote:Misogyny is the world's oldest prejudice, according to the late Jack Holland, and he recounts the historical systematic and relentless suppression of women throughout the ages, by different factions such as Governments and religious bodies.
When you consider that even in the so-called affluent and advanced west, women are consistently paid less than their male counterparts, and that of 30,000 people losing their jobs in the UK this past year, 26,000 of them have been women - I really don't believe such a conspiracy to be out of the question.
I don't think a conspiracy such as this would have allowed the Therigatha. Also, in the Theragatha, a monk is depicted as awakening after hearing a nun teach Dhamma.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Sutta about the ordination of women?

Post by Modus.Ponens »

There's something I don't understand: why would the "conspiracy" have to be right after the Buddha's death and not centuries later?
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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Re: Sutta about the ordination of women?

Post by tiltbillings »

daverupa wrote:
Fede wrote:Misogyny is the world's oldest prejudice, according to the late Jack Holland, and he recounts the historical systematic and relentless suppression of women throughout the ages, by different factions such as Governments and religious bodies.
When you consider that even in the so-called affluent and advanced west, women are consistently paid less than their male counterparts, and that of 30,000 people losing their jobs in the UK this past year, 26,000 of them have been women - I really don't believe such a conspiracy to be out of the question.
I don't think a conspiracy such as this would have allowed the Therigatha. Also, in the Theragatha, a monk is depicted as awakening after hearing a nun teach Dhamma.
Also, the Itivuttaka, which is traditionally held to have been recited by a slave woman.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Sutta about the ordination of women?

Post by tiltbillings »

Modus.Ponens wrote:There's something I don't understand: why would the "conspiracy" have to be right after the Buddha's death and not centuries later?
Because within less the 100 years the divisions had already started and this story and the rules seems to be common to all the Mainstream schools of Indian Buddhism.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Sutta about the ordination of women?

Post by Modus.Ponens »

Ah, I see. Thanks.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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