Moggalana wrote:On the contrary! The modern study of consciousness began with Descartes, and Descartes is widely known for his theory of mind-body dualism. Fast forward 350 years and there is (more or less) only one prominent dualist remaning: David Chalmers. All the others think that dualism just doesn't work because how should a non-physical entity interact with a physical brain?m0rl0ck wrote: Its interesting that westerners start from the objective and their question is "How did consciousness arise from the physical?"
Subjectivity doesn't necessarily imply dualism. Personally, I find Metzinger's and Blackmore's theories of consciousness pretty interesting. They are both (materalistic) monists and they are also long-term meditators, so they don't discard phenomenology like some of the other materialists.m0rl0ck wrote: Other cultures attribute primary place to subjectivity.
Consciousness studies is still a pretty young science and much remains to be discovered but it doesn't look too good for non-materialist neuroscience.
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interesting books:
- Susan Blackmore - Consciousness: An Introduction
Susan Blackmore - Consciousness - A very short introduction
Susan Blackmore - Conversations on Consciousness
Susan Blackmore - Zen and the Art of Consciousness
Thomas Metzinger - The Ego Tunnel: The Science of the Mind and the Myth of the Self
and many more I haven't read yet...
I was actually talking about subjectivity vs objectivity of experience not mind / body dualism.
I read a little of the metzinger and couldnt make a go of it, it assumed too much prior knowledge of his work. After googling him tho and reading about his theories, he sounds like any other materialist to me, someone who beleives the brain and its function compose the self. I know, he says that he is deconstructing the self, but all he has really done is just pin it to brain function the same way every other materialist does. If he is a long term meditator i would like to know what he has gleaned from his practice. It seems to me that a beleif in the self as brain and brain function would be a major stumbling block. I will investigate the blackmore link later, ty for the links
BTW that non materialist neuroscience link is a real hoot, ty for the laugh. I especially found this amusing:
The combination of computational modeling and non-invasive imaging of living brains has allowed researchers to begin describing how complex thought emerges from the firing patterns of neurons.