masturbation what's wrong?

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Soe Win Htut
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Soe Win Htut » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:28 am

Dear friend,

To abandon the lust or a habitual deeds.

1) Accept whatever mind such as lust, desire, thinking, feeling, sensation or emotion as created truth which is fake and fraud nature.(Sammuti Sacca).

2) Understand that the created truth is unreal and not a real existence because it is temporary, inconstant, impermanent and non-self.

3) Accept that created truths are just to be used for the practice of abandonment (Letting go).

4) At first, be aware of the mind-action of centering, and believing the current arising mind & body (or) created truths as reality so that we can abandon it.

5) But we do not try to abandon directly the arising mind such as a thinking, lust, craving, an agitation or a negative thought which is just a created truth. We must neither indulge nor reject it directly. It is just to be used only or experiened only for the practice of abandonment (Letting go).

6) And then try to abandon the mind-action of emphasizing and centering and believing the arising mind as reality which is accompanying behind the arising mind such as a thinking, lust, craving, an agitation or a negative thought.

if possible, meditate daily as much as you can with the help of insight guided meditation at below link : http://onlymiddleway.multiply.com/music
Awareness(mental noting) alone is not enough for enlightenment. (Ashin Tejaniya)
Created truths(Sammuti Sacca) are just to be used only, experienced only and known onlyWithout rejecting and attaching them with the idea of reality.
Vipassana (Insight meditation) is changing from the volitional action to action-only, attachment to detachment, misunderstanding to right understanding.
To Learn more....
http://www.thabarwa.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, or
http://www.thabarwa.org/guided-insight-mp3-talks/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Pondera
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Re: Naughty posts (topic number = 489)

Post by Pondera » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:27 am

Ben wrote:Given what you've provided above, I'd say it doesn't exist. Its best not to put words in the mouth of the Buddha, Pondera, as you misrepresent the Dhamma.

EDIT:
Intentionally causing oneself to emit semen, or getting someone else to cause one to emit semen — except during a dream — is a saṅghādisesa offense. (Sg 1)
I stand humiliated and wrong. The text is from the Vinaya Pitaka. A version of it also appears in the Dhammapada. It was the Ven. Seyyasaka who had the bad looking skin. It was Ven. Udayin who encouraged him to masturbate so that his health would improve and the Buddha rebuked him for it. He did not support it. So, I have misrepresented the Buddha, though not intentionally as I read the text a long, long while back, the translation was different. There was a much greater emphasis on the whole part about Ven. Seyyasaka being teased by the other monks, and I thought it finished there, so somewhere in my memory banks I assumed he was simply allowed to do this. On the contrary, the reference, which does exist, though in an entirely different manner than the way in which I was able to recall it, is the primary source for the rule which was quoted above. My apologies. Masturbation is wrong.

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Ben
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Ben » Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:32 am

No problems Pondera. In future you may wish to quote and cite rather than rely on memory.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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manas
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by manas » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:43 am

Hi rb3, and all,

I was reading this section of Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo's exposition of Satipatthana practice and came across something that is indeed useful for calming down sensual fever. The Ajahn really has a way with words here:
Ajahn Lee wrote:# Investigate the 32 parts of the body, beginning with the hair of the head, hair of the body, nails, teeth, skin, etc. Make a thorough survey and evaluation. If this method doesn't calm the mind, go on to —
# Investigate the various repugnant aspects of the body, beginning with the fact that the body is a conglomeration of all sorts of things. In other words, it's a burial ground, a national cemetery, filled with the corpses of cattle, pigs, ducks, chickens, sour, sweet, greasy, salty, gathered and aged in the stomach, filtered and distilled into blood, pus, decomposing and putrid, oozing throughout the body and coming out its various openings: this body, which all of us in the human race care for without ceasing — bathing it, scrubbing it, masking its smell — and even then its filth keeps displaying itself as ear wax, eye secretions, nasal drip, tooth tartar, skin-scruff, and sweat, always oozing out, filthy in every way. What it comes from is filthy, where it stays is filthy (i.e., in a cemetery of fresh corpses, or even worse — we've probably buried hundreds of different kinds of corpses within ourselves). If you look at the human body, you'll see that its characteristics are ill-matched and incongruous. Its smell is something really offensive. If looking at the body in this way doesn't give rise to a sense of dismay and detachment, go on to — ...
(there's more but I will stop here). The section I posted is from here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/lee/frames.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think that if we sincerely contemplate what Ven. Lee wrote above, we might suddenly feel like being with our kammathana, rather than pursuing sex pleasure...well I'll give it a try, anyway...

with metta,

m. :anjali:
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

Memmz
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Memmz » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:37 am

You should try contacting your doctor and ask for drugs that will inhibit this.

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manas
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by manas » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:43 am

I don't think drugs are the answer (except in criminal cases, and this isn't one). The OP isn't about to break any laws of the land here, he is just struggling with what most dhamma-farers struggle with (the reason it's not much of a 'struggle' for your average joe, is that they usually just 'go with the flow' and give in to it).

I can recall all my promises to self and extreme attempts using willpower etc earlier on in my dhammic life, and how they always either failed or fizzed out. Now I believe there is simply no easy way around it. Whatever you do is going to hurt, some ways are going to hurt more, and some less. But it's wishful thinking to think there's a pain-free, quick fix to sexual lust.

If we could just see the way things really are - that is, the true nature of the physical body - our sexual lust would be attenuated. The body is full of unpleasant looking and foul-smelling stuff. Muscles, bones, internal organs...I could go on, but I think we all know what's in there. So why, knowing that, do we still suffer from lust? It is because we don't really see. Our seeing is superficial. (ok this is my current understanding, and I welcome correction or clarification):
Upanisa Sutta wrote:"The knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of things as they really are? 'Concentration' should be the reply." (Yathābhūtañāṇadassanampahaṃ bhikkhave saupanisaṃ vadāmi, no anupanisaṃ. Kā ca bhikkhave, yathābhūtañāṇadassanassa upanisā? Samādhītissa vacanīyaṃ.)
My current understanding is that the reason we can look at the most gruesome human dissection on the net, and despite this still fall prey to lust (I recommend such videos as aids to accurate visualization later on in meditation, however) is because we need the right kind of seeing, seeing that is empowered by samma samadhi. Until then, there will be some days where we just have to grit our teeth and resist...
:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

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manas
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by manas » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:46 am

I realized that what I quoted above is incomplete, without mentioning that there is a kind of pattern that seems to be restated in various ways, regarding the journey towards samadhi, beginning with virtue...:
Samaññaphala Sutta wrote:"...A monk thus consummate in virtue sees no danger anywhere from his restraint through virtue. Just as a head-anointed noble warrior king who has defeated his enemies sees no danger anywhere from his enemies, in the same way the monk thus consummate in virtue sees no danger anywhere from his restraint through virtue. Endowed with this noble aggregate of virtue, he is inwardly sensitive to the pleasure of being blameless. This is how a monk is consummate in virtue.

Sense Restraint

"And how does a monk guard the doors of his senses? On seeing a form with the eye, he does not grasp at any theme or details by which — if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the eye — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. On hearing a sound with the ear... On smelling an odor with the nose... On tasting a flavor with the tongue... On touching a tactile sensation with the body... On cognizing an idea with the intellect, he does not grasp at any theme or details by which — if he were to dwell without restraint over the faculty of the intellect — evil, unskillful qualities such as greed or distress might assail him. Endowed with this noble restraint over the sense faculties, he is inwardly sensitive to the pleasure of being blameless. This is how a monk guards the doors of his senses.

Mindfulness & Alertness

"And how is a monk possessed of mindfulness and alertness? When going forward and returning, he acts with alertness. When looking toward and looking away... when bending and extending his limbs... when carrying his outer cloak, his upper robe, and his bowl... when eating, drinking, chewing, and tasting... when urinating and defecating... when walking, standing, sitting, falling asleep, waking up, talking, and remaining silent, he acts with alertness. This is how a monk is possessed of mindfulness and alertness.

Contentedness

"And how is a monk content? Just as a bird, wherever it goes, flies with its wings as its only burden; so too is he content with a set of robes to provide for his body and almsfood to provide for his hunger. Wherever he goes, he takes only his barest necessities along. This is how a monk is content.
Abandoning the Hindrances

"Endowed with this noble aggregate of virtue, this noble restraint over the sense faculties, this noble mindfulness and alertness, and this noble contentment, he seeks out a secluded dwelling: a forest, the shade of a tree, a mountain, a glen, a hillside cave, a charnel ground, a jungle grove, the open air, a heap of straw. After his meal, returning from his alms round, he sits down, crosses his legs, holds his body erect, and brings mindfulness to the fore.

"Abandoning covetousness with regard to the world, he dwells with an awareness devoid of covetousness. He cleanses his mind of covetousness. Abandoning ill will and anger, he dwells with an awareness devoid of ill will, sympathetic with the welfare of all living beings. He cleanses his mind of ill will and anger. Abandoning sloth and drowsiness, he dwells with an awareness devoid of sloth and drowsiness, mindful, alert, percipient of light. He cleanses his mind of sloth and drowsiness. Abandoning restlessness and anxiety, he dwells undisturbed, his mind inwardly stilled. He cleanses his mind of restlessness and anxiety. Abandoning uncertainty, he dwells having crossed over uncertainty, with no perplexity with regard to skillful mental qualities. He cleanses his mind of uncertainty.

"Suppose that a man, taking a loan, invests it in his business affairs. His business affairs succeed. He repays his old debts and there is extra left over for maintaining his wife. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, taking a loan, I invested it in my business affairs. Now my business affairs have succeeded. I have repaid my old debts and there is extra left over for maintaining my wife.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.

"Now suppose that a man falls sick — in pain and seriously ill. He does not enjoy his meals, and there is no strength in his body. As time passes, he eventually recovers from that sickness. He enjoys his meals and there is strength in his body. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, I was sick... Now I am recovered from that sickness. I enjoy my meals and there is strength in my body.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.

"Now suppose that a man is bound in prison. As time passes, he eventually is released from that bondage, safe and sound, with no loss of property. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, I was bound in prison. Now I am released from that bondage, safe and sound, with no loss of my property.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.

"Now suppose that a man is a slave, subject to others, not subject to himself, unable to go where he likes. As time passes, he eventually is released from that slavery, subject to himself, not subject to others, freed, able to go where he likes. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, I was a slave... Now I am released from that slavery, subject to myself, not subject to others, freed, able to go where I like.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.

"Now suppose that a man, carrying money and goods, is traveling by a road through desolate country. As time passes, he eventually emerges from that desolate country, safe and sound, with no loss of property. The thought would occur to him, 'Before, carrying money and goods, I was traveling by a road through desolate country. Now I have emerged from that desolate country, safe and sound, with no loss of my property.' Because of that he would experience joy and happiness.

"In the same way, when these five hindrances are not abandoned in himself, the monk regards it as a debt, a sickness, a prison, slavery, a road through desolate country. But when these five hindrances are abandoned in himself, he regards it as unindebtedness, good health, release from prison, freedom, a place of security. Seeing that they have been abandoned within him, he becomes glad. Glad, he becomes enraptured. Enraptured, his body grows tranquil. His body tranquil, he is sensitive to pleasure. Feeling pleasure, his mind becomes concentrated'.

(The Four Jhanas)...
So, there is alot for us to work on...it would appear that, having established oneself in virtuous behaviour, one needs to begin 'guarding the sense-doors' as described, yes? And cultivate satisampajañña and so on...? Practically speaking, for most of us (householders) guarding the sense-doors would involve remaining alert through the day when we are out and about, especially guarding the sense of sight...does everyone know what I'm talking about here?

:anjali:
Knowing this body is like a clay jar,
securing this mind like a fort,
attack Mara with the spear of discernment,
then guard what's won without settling there,
without laying claim.

- Dhp 40

Guinness
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Re: Need help to overcome lust

Post by Guinness » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:51 am

I've skipped some of the replies, so apologies if this has been covered..

Sex is for pro-creation exclusively. Thats it, dead simple.

With all due respect to the OP, but I really thought that is was an attempt at a wind up.

I think even the 'best' of us have sexual urges, but some real heavy duty thought needs to go into the suppression if we want to 'kill' those urges. Anyone can do it, I know that I can. I've been married for 20 years and live a few thousand miles away from my wife. I see her for a few weeks every few months, and in those few weeks, I get more out enjoying her as a person as opposed to thinking about the sex I haven't had since the last time I seen her - to the point, that if we want sex, we need to "pencil it in" and it may or may not happen. Is it unhealthy? No, not for us. We have a mutual bond: or true love you may say. Way beyond breaking the rules on pro-creation.

I have never had an urge to seek sexual 'fulfilment' away from my wife. Quite the opposite in fact, but I will not judge those that cannot.

Stillsitting
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Re: Overcoming passion

Post by Stillsitting » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:45 am

I am responding to the original post, even though it is more than a year old, because it is something that i am dealing with.

Although I have been meditating for many years, it is only recently that I have rededicated and recommitted myself to a regular practice of Vipassana mediation - twice a day, one hour a day, plus a practice of metta.

At the same time, I recently began to attend a weekly 12-step program for sexual addiction.

However, at a deep level the two practices - vipassana and the 12-steps - seem to be in conflict for me.

While Vipassana practice is just to observe with equanimity whatever arises, the 12 steps - particularly at the meetings - seems to be more about consciously digging up and even dwelling on the past.

For me, Vipassana is wonderful reality check and I feel that with a regular twice a day practice there is very little chance that I will engage in sexual misconduct. I am attending the 12-step meetings as a further guarantee. But now I wonder whether the 12-step meetings in fact keep my energy unduly focused on sex, sexual misconduct, etc. - rather than just letting this, and any other energy, naturally arise and fall away.

Tiltbillings replied to the original poster that what is needed is compassion. Compassion is a strong basis of my practice. However, much of the language of the 12-step program, and also of many of the attendees, seems to be of a self-berating nature, which I find to be deflating.

I'm wondering if other Vipassana practitioners have experience with 12-step programs, particularly for sex addiction, and what are your thoughts.

With metta

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Overcoming passion

Post by LonesomeYogurt » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:39 pm

Stillsitting wrote:
Tiltbillings replied to the original poster that what is needed is compassion. Compassion is a strong basis of my practice. However, much of the language of the 12-step program, and also of many of the attendees, seems to be of a self-berating nature, which I find to be deflating.

I'm wondering if other Vipassana practitioners have experience with 12-step programs, particularly for sex addiction, and what are your thoughts.

With metta
I absolutely agree; although 12-Step programs might be a help to some, I think they are unduly negative and do not mesh well with a mindfulness-focused approach.

Although I may prickle some people with this suggestion, I would at least encourage you to look into samadhi meditation or Jhana as a powerful antidote to sensuality. The little experience I have with these states has already lessened the bonds of desire, sexual or otherwise, very intensely.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.

rowyourboat
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Re: Overcoming passion

Post by rowyourboat » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:09 pm

All I can add to this is that Mahatma Ghandhi wrote that all his previous (failed) attempts at controlling lust eventually helped him in the long run to overcome it. Keep the faith! Keep exploring what this lust is all about, explore the nature of pleasant sensations- their transience, what it means at a mental level to be with a woman, the true nature of the body, the cost of an actual sexual encounter, materially, mentally, socially,and karmically, overcome low moods/boredom which leads to needing sex, developing metta all the time, seeing women as part of the family -other people's sister, daughter, mother etc. At the very least limit the damage and masturbate! Samatha can help. Vipassana can help! Precepts can help. Being busy can help. Exercise can help :broke:
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Stillsitting
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Re: Overcoming passion

Post by Stillsitting » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 pm

LonesomeYogurt wrote: I absolutely agree; although 12-Step programs might be a help to some, I think they are unduly negative and do not mesh well with a mindfulness-focused approach.

Although I may prickle some people with this suggestion, I would at least encourage you to look into samadhi meditation or Jhana as a powerful antidote to sensuality. The little experience I have with these states has already lessened the bonds of desire, sexual or otherwise, very intensely.
Thanks for your reply. I didn't get an email notification - I'll check my account settings - so I only found your reply now when I visited this site again.

I think for now I'll stick to Vipassana meditation as taught by SN Goenka. (Of course samadhi is an integral part of Vipassana, and I'm not sure how it differs from the practices you mention.)

For too many years I've been random with my meditation practice - picking and choosing bits here and there from different teachers. There are so many wonderful teachers and teachings. But it's time for me to commit to one practice and stick with that. Doing so, I find, has already helped me immensely in demarcating the boundaries between sexual conduct and misconduct.

Stillsitting
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Re: Overcoming passion

Post by Stillsitting » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:21 pm

rowyourboat wrote:All I can add to this is that Mahatma Ghandhi wrote that all his previous (failed) attempts at controlling lust eventually helped him in the long run to overcome it. Keep the faith! Keep exploring what this lust is all about, explore the nature of pleasant sensations- their transience, what it means at a mental level to be with a woman, the true nature of the body, the cost of an actual sexual encounter, materially, mentally, socially,and karmically, overcome low moods/boredom which leads to needing sex, developing metta all the time, seeing women as part of the family -other people's sister, daughter, mother etc. At the very least limit the damage and masturbate! Samatha can help. Vipassana can help! Precepts can help. Being busy can help. Exercise can help :broke:
Thank you for your positive energy. I'm determined!!

rowyourboat
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Re: Overcoming passion

Post by rowyourboat » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:25 pm

Stillsitting, another thing which might help is exploring how we identify (relate) ourselves as 'men' to her 'woman'. This fabrication sets the scene for further thoughts of a sensual nature. The vitakkasantana sutta techniques also help one you can identify lust. I suspect one of the biggest obstacles is at some level not being firmly resolved on not wanting sexual contact. I haven't beaten it myself, but on the path!

Wishing us good luck! :toast: ('frothy apple juice')

Metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Stillsitting
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:29 am

Re: Overcoming passion

Post by Stillsitting » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:08 pm

rowyourboat wrote:Stillsitting, another thing which might help is exploring how we identify (relate) ourselves as 'men' to her 'woman'. This fabrication sets the scene for further thoughts of a sensual nature. The vitakkasantana sutta techniques also help one you can identify lust. I suspect one of the biggest obstacles is at some level not being firmly resolved on not wanting sexual contact. I haven't beaten it myself, but on the path!

Wishing us good luck! :toast: ('frothy apple juice')

Metta
thanks rowyourboat

again, it's taken long to reply (i didn't get a notification of your reply)

i'm glad to say that i've been meditating regularly and when i do sexual misconduct becomes a non-issue

although you're right. i'm not resolved on not wanting sexual contact. for me, sexual energy is just one of the multifarious ways that energy expresses itself through us. i don't wish to suppress it.
i'm not currently in an intimate/sexual relationship. i'm also not actively seeking one, but i have resolved that if i ever am in such a relathionship again it will be with a committed vipassana practitioner!
and if that happens i'll do my best to be a loving, compassionate and responsible partner.

i'm not able to cite scriptures to back up what i'm saying.
this is just how i see things at the moment - maybe tomorrow that will have changed!

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