Today I went to a session by Ajhan Brahm who suggested 'stilling' as the best translation, and that concentration was a very poor translation.
Also this gives some hints as to what it is about:
"As for the individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, but not internal tranquillity of awareness, he should approach an individual who has attained internal tranquillity of awareness... and ask him, 'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'The mind should be steadied in this way. The mind should be made to settle down in this way. The mind should be unified in this way. The mind should be concentrated in this way.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquillity of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also..
"[9] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.' [10] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in satisfying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out satisfying the mind.' [11] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind.' [12] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'[5]
with metta
Matheesha
Samadhi (best English translation?)
-
- Posts: 1952
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
-
- Posts: 980
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am
- Contact:
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
It may also be possible to derive the term from not "sam-", but "sama".
~~ Huifeng
~~ Huifeng
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
As in?:Paññāsikhara wrote:It may also be possible to derive the term from not "sam-", but "sama".
~~ Huifeng
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samadhi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Samadhi (समाधि samādhi, Hindi pronunciation: [səˈmaːd̪ʱi]) is the state of consciousness induced by complete meditation. The term's etymology involves "sam" (together or integrated), "ā" (towards), and "dhā" (to get, to hold). Thus the result might be seen to be "to acquire integration or wholeness, or truth" (samāpatti). Another possible etymological analysis of "samādhi" is "samā" (even) and "dhi" (intellect), a state of total equilibrium ("samā") of a detached intellect ("dhi").
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
-
- Posts: 980
- Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:27 am
- Contact:
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
As in the second definition given above.tiltbillings wrote:As in?:Paññāsikhara wrote:It may also be possible to derive the term from not "sam-", but "sama".
~~ Huifeng
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samadhi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Samadhi (समाधि samādhi, Hindi pronunciation: [səˈmaːd̪ʱi]) is the state of consciousness induced by complete meditation. The term's etymology involves "sam" (together or integrated), "ā" (towards), and "dhā" (to get, to hold). Thus the result might be seen to be "to acquire integration or wholeness, or truth" (samāpatti). Another possible etymological analysis of "samādhi" is "samā" (even) and "dhi" (intellect), a state of total equilibrium ("samā") of a detached intellect ("dhi").
- equal / even / etc...
~~ Huifeng
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
Welcome back Venerable!
I wonder if this ambiguity in Pali compounds is a disadvantage (because the meaning seems unclear) or an advantage (giving a rich set of multiple meanings).
Mike
I wonder if this ambiguity in Pali compounds is a disadvantage (because the meaning seems unclear) or an advantage (giving a rich set of multiple meanings).
Mike
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
It is simply a fact, which allows for playing with multiple meanings.mikenz66 wrote:Welcome back Venerable!
I wonder if this ambiguity in Pali compounds is a disadvantage (because the meaning seems unclear) or an advantage (giving a rich set of multiple meanings).
Mike
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
- retrofuturist
- Posts: 27857
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
Greetings,
Metta,
Retro.
Right... that's how I understand samadhi and what I was getting at with my one word "clarity" definition.Another possible etymological analysis of "samādhi" is "samā" (even) and "dhi" (intellect), a state of total equilibrium ("samā") of a detached intellect ("dhi").
Metta,
Retro.
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
I think the translation of a word and the definition of a word a actually two different things.
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
concentration has different levels
calm,stilling,one-pointless
and deep samadhi which is like a grenade blows up next to you
calm is like stretching
stilling is like holding
one pointless is like working
deep samadhi is rare since it follows by realization of not-self
metta
calm,stilling,one-pointless
and deep samadhi which is like a grenade blows up next to you
calm is like stretching
stilling is like holding
one pointless is like working
deep samadhi is rare since it follows by realization of not-self
metta
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
Retro,
My only Pali vocabulary is only about 30-40 words, but I like your translation as clarity. It's a pretty easy, common word found in non-Buddhist contexts. I am a fan of those kinds of translations.
I have to ask, is "samma samadhi" a narrow focus like an ostrich with it's head in the ground, or unwavering focus that faces distractions unwaveringly like a mountain standing tall in a storm. If Samma Samadhi is like the mountain, I like your word clarity. Otherwise, concentration seems more apt.
My only Pali vocabulary is only about 30-40 words, but I like your translation as clarity. It's a pretty easy, common word found in non-Buddhist contexts. I am a fan of those kinds of translations.
I have to ask, is "samma samadhi" a narrow focus like an ostrich with it's head in the ground, or unwavering focus that faces distractions unwaveringly like a mountain standing tall in a storm. If Samma Samadhi is like the mountain, I like your word clarity. Otherwise, concentration seems more apt.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
- Cittasanto
- Posts: 6646
- Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
- Location: Ellan Vannin
- Contact:
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
Where? these are completely different words passadhi & cetaso ekodibhāvaṃ respectivlyDavid N. Snyder wrote:I have seen it also translated as 'tranquility' and also 'one-pointedness of mind'.
Retro - I like focus, clarity seams strange to me as although it is a clear mind state it ignores the undistractedness of it, but concentration I feel adds to much emphasis on one aspect of samadhi, which is given credibility with the number of references to the jhanas, but ignores other infrequent occurrences, such as in MN117 which seams to me to give a more every day doing stuff/not just sitting meditation feel to the practice of Sammasamadhi.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
Please excuse my poor example above. Ostrich head in the ground is more fear than concentration. I meant to convey a sense of focus where other things are blocked out or repressed. That would contrast with the view of one that has a small acknowledgement of the distraction but never wavers from the real object of concentration. Clarity seems to convey that second sense, where the distraction is not repressed, but it is kept in check so that the object of concentration is seen with unwavering clarity.
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
I think a really good translation in both connotation and denotation is the word "collectedness." I like this translation in particular because it it expresses the meaning of the term in a way that doesn't imply force or the constriction of awareness to a single point (although it still leaves that as an open posibility), and gives people a better sense of what meditation is.
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
I too find concentration to be a poor translation for samadhi. My meditation teacher, Sayadaw U Tejaniya, prefers stability or stability of mind. In terms of meaning, I think it’s really good as it makes sense in terms of practice—much better than concentration. However, I wasn’t satisfied. I set out to find the best translation, and here’s the result:
Samādhi is the noun for the verb samādhiyati.
Samādhiyati is the passive form for the active verb samādahati.
Samādahati: sam “together” + ādahati “put, place”. So, it means “put together” or “place together”. The English word compose shares a strikingly similar origin: com “together” + ponere “put, place”. (Source: http://www.myetymology.com/english/composure.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://dictionary.reference.com/etymology/compose" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) In modern usage, both words can also mean “to still or calm down the mind”.
Composed also share strikingly similar meaning as samāhita (participle of samādahati), which means “settled, composed, collected”. Both denotes a mental state that is not scattered, not “all over the place” (so to speak), but gathered, collected, composed.
Extrapolating from that, the noun samādhi should rightly mean “composure, collectedness”.It is probably the best English equivalent of samādhi.
I’m in the midst of writing an article (which is becoming a booklet) on this among other things related to samādhi. I’m pleasantly surprise to find this discussion on the very topic that set me off on a research spree! Shall share the work with you all when I’m done with it.
Samādhi is the noun for the verb samādhiyati.
Samādhiyati is the passive form for the active verb samādahati.
Samādahati: sam “together” + ādahati “put, place”. So, it means “put together” or “place together”. The English word compose shares a strikingly similar origin: com “together” + ponere “put, place”. (Source: http://www.myetymology.com/english/composure.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://dictionary.reference.com/etymology/compose" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) In modern usage, both words can also mean “to still or calm down the mind”.
Composed also share strikingly similar meaning as samāhita (participle of samādahati), which means “settled, composed, collected”. Both denotes a mental state that is not scattered, not “all over the place” (so to speak), but gathered, collected, composed.
Extrapolating from that, the noun samādhi should rightly mean “composure, collectedness”.It is probably the best English equivalent of samādhi.
I’m in the midst of writing an article (which is becoming a booklet) on this among other things related to samādhi. I’m pleasantly surprise to find this discussion on the very topic that set me off on a research spree! Shall share the work with you all when I’m done with it.
Re: Samadhi (best English translation?)
Kumara wrote:I too find concentration to be a poor translation for samadhi. My meditation teacher, Sayadaw U Tejaniya, prefers stability or stability of mind. In terms of meaning, I think it’s really good as it makes sense in terms of practice—much better than concentration. However, I wasn’t satisfied. I set out to find the best translation, and here’s the result:
Samādhi is the noun for the verb samādhiyati.
Samādhiyati is the passive form for the active verb samādahati.
Samādahati: sam “together” + ādahati “put, place”. So, it means “put together” or “place together”. The English word compose shares a strikingly similar origin: com “together” + ponere “put, place”. (Source: http://www.myetymology.com/english/composure.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://dictionary.reference.com/etymology/compose" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) In modern usage, both words can also mean “to still or calm down the mind”.
Composed also share strikingly similar meaning as samāhita (participle of samādahati), which means “settled, composed, collected”. Both denotes a mental state that is not scattered, not “all over the place” (so to speak), but gathered, collected, composed.
Extrapolating from that, the noun samādhi should rightly mean “composure, collectedness”.It is probably the best English equivalent of samādhi.
I’m in the midst of writing an article (which is becoming a booklet) on this among other things related to samādhi. I’m pleasantly surprise to find this discussion on the very topic that set me off on a research spree! Shall share the work with you all when I’m done with it.
Metta
Ignorance is an intentional act.