re. Vipassana Advice

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kirk5a
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Re: re. Vipassana Advice

Post by kirk5a » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:13 pm

Step 1: Define "Vipassana"
But if you look directly at the Pali discourses — the earliest extant sources for our knowledge of the Buddha's teachings — you'll find that although they do use the word samatha to mean tranquillity, and vipassana to mean clear-seeing, they otherwise confirm none of the received wisdom about these terms. Only rarely do they make use of the word vipassana — a sharp contrast to their frequent use of the word jhana. When they depict the Buddha telling his disciples to go meditate, they never quote him as saying "go do vipassana," but always "go do jhana." And they never equate the word vipassana with any mindfulness techniques. In the few instances where they do mention vipassana, they almost always pair it with samatha — not as two alternative methods, but as two qualities of mind that a person may "gain" or "be endowed with," and that should be developed together.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... etool.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: re. Vipassana Advice

Post by PeterB » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:36 pm

For the purpose of this discussion those mediation practices as taught by the Goenkaji, Sayadaw and related schools. In other words those practices commonly understood to the the topic when the phrase Vipassana ( often with a capital V ) is mentioned on this forum.
My purpose was not to debate the relative merits of various meditative practices, But rather to request that should inquiry take a specific form, for example if advice concerning Vipassana is sought that any advice forthcoming should be in accord with accepted forms of Vipassana as taught...for example in Goenka or Sayadaw centres.

Whether this accords with a scholastic or pedantic definition of vipassana is of no interest to me.
Whether it accords to the cerebrations of Thanissaro Bhikkhu is of no interest to me.
What goes on at your local centre is what is of interest to me.

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Mr Man
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Re: re. Vipassana Advice

Post by Mr Man » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:13 pm

Hello
I think that there is a problem with making something into something "special" when it really isn't that special. Making it esoteric when it really isn't. Do I need to show my credentials for this view :tongue: .
I'm sure that most people who are serious in learning a meditation technic will try and seek out a "teacher" rather than basing there practice on what they read on a forum.
If they do follow any of the advice that may be available on Dhamma Wheel what is the worst that could happen?

PeterB
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Re: re. Vipassana Advice

Post by PeterB » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:39 pm

If I was sure that the majority who are interested in Vipassana but had no experience would seek out their local centre I would not have bothered to post the OP.

The worst that could happen is that a lot of people would wander around in circles for a while and then ditch the practice...It happens.
It is not esoteric. It is a skillset that needs to be learned properly.

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kirk5a
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Re: re. Vipassana Advice

Post by kirk5a » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:42 pm

PeterB wrote:For the purpose of this discussion those mediation practices as taught by the Goenkaji, Sayadaw and related schools. In other words those practices commonly understood to the the topic when the phrase Vipassana ( often with a capital V ) is mentioned on this forum.
Precisely my point. I disagree with the presumption that those schools authoritatively define "Vipassana." They certainly authoritatively define their own techniques, but it would be better to speak about the techniques of a teacher or school rather than have them assume some mantle of authority for "Vipassana" ... (which looks like a rather modern use of the term in the first place.)

Why don't you simply follow your own suggestion and identify your teachers when you give advice on "Vipassana"? Or ask others to identify theirs when they do? Or go ahead and note, as you frequently do already, the importance of hands-on instruction? I don't see the problem that needs fixing here.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

PeterB
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Re: re. Vipassana Advice

Post by PeterB » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:25 pm

Then you need no longer detain yourself do you ? Thank you for your input.
:anjali:

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