I don't believe it, or not-believe it. But I do think the Buddha taught it, and for good reasons which become clear when you study the Suttas. There are tools for investigating experience taught within the Suttas as well which yield more immediate fruit other than the awareness of punabbhava.
In my opinion, believing and not-believing are mental habits and lazy ones at that. It's a way to stop learning by simply generalizing experience. Easy enough to fall into but also fairly easy to break when you catch yourself doing it.
M4
Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
Which Ajahns? Many do talk about rebirth (not making a value judgment, just noting that there are Ajahns who talk about rebirth).PeterB wrote: Which is I think what lies behind the refusal of those Ajahns to comment directly on the issue...they think that the vital thing is the practice and that the rest can wait.
Ajahn Brahm talks of rebirth and has praised Ian Stevenson's work:
http://www.understandwisdom.com/ajahn-b ... carnation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There are other videos too, of Ajahn Brahm praising Ian Stevenson's works. (Again, not saying if this is good or bad, just noting).
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
I was thinking of Ajahns Sumedho and Munindo who I had mentioned earlier David.
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
I'm sure the Ajahns' insight is quite helpful, but if we can get the insight directly from the Buddha, wouldn't that be even better? For those who haven't read MN60, I'd strongly recommend this wonderful sutta in which the great Teacher analyzed in detail various "hot" topics like rebirth, kamma, etc..
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
Something told to you, instead of you experiencing it for yourself isn't an insight.santa100 wrote:I'm sure the Ajahns' insight is quite helpful, but if we can get the insight directly from the Buddha, wouldn't that be even better?
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
Well, dont' forget the 3-step approach: read/listen ---> think/contemplate ---> practice. The suttas are there for a purpose..
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
Don't forget that history is filled with religions making stories up to deceive people and for people to deceive themselves. Evidence is the only thing that makes something true.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
Have you read MN60? Are you saying MN60 and other suttas the products of "religions making stories up"?Jhana4 wrote:
Don't forget that history is filled with religions making stories up to deceive people and for people to deceive themselves. Evidence is the only thing that makes something true.
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
No disrespect, but it seems that you might not understand the problems with circular reasoning
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
No disrespect, you need to back up what you claim..
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
No disrespect, what people need to do is find out for themselves on the cushion, with guidance.
The Dhamma is not a debating society or lab where the issues are peer reviewed.
The Dhamma is not a debating society or lab where the issues are peer reviewed.
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
Continuing with complete respect, I haven't made any claims, you have -- that there is some truth in the suttas that a person can accept as true, just because they are in the suttas. Since I am not making a claim, I have nothing to back up. Since you are making a claim, you have something to back up. Have a good week.santa100 wrote:No disrespect, you need to back up what you claim..
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
It's not my claim. I simply restated most of Buddhist masters and scholars' view that the Pali Canon although not a 100% the work of the Buddha, but is the closest source available to date about His Teaching. Now, you did suggest that it was the work of a "religion making stories up", and so I need to clarify this point with you, and ask you if indeed you think it is the case, and if so, why..Jhana4 wrote:
I haven't made any claims, you have -- that there is some truth in the suttas that a person can accept as true, just because they are in the suttas. Since I am not making a claim, I have nothing to back up. Since you are making a claim, you have something to back up
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
All Due Respect ...
“I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.” – Henry David Thoreau, Walden, 1854
Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)
A Handful of Leaves
Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)
A Handful of Leaves
Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas
Eh, not everyone watched The Sopranos so they might not appreciate the reference. I haven't but have seen enough mafia movies. Good try , .......forget about it!
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.