Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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BubbaBuddhist
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by BubbaBuddhist »

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Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
alan
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by alan »

Since we know the Buddha understood his rebirths only upon his awakening, it seems ridiculous to speculate about it. No one really knows, and those who pretend otherwise are not worthy of consideration.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by tiltbillings »

alan wrote: No one really knows.
Well, obviously you are obviously claiming you know that no one knows, so based upon your claim that you know what everyone does not know, it would seem, then, that you are one of "those who . . . are not worthy of consideration" because your claiming of knowing.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by alan »

You can do better than that, tilt. Your complaint is not specific.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

alan wrote:Since we know the Buddha understood his rebirths only upon his awakening, it seems ridiculous to speculate about it.
According to the scriptural account, the Bodhisatta recollected his previous rebirths and those of others before his awakening, depending on his perfection in Samatha meditation. It was only in the third watch of the night, when he turned is attention to contemplating the five aggregates using vipassanā meditation that he found the method leading to awakening.

Many things are worthy of consideration besides direct knowledge.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by tiltbillings »

alan wrote:You can do better than that, tilt. Your complaint is not specific.
It simply matched your complaint in depth and acuity.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by alan »

I would seriously doubt your account of the meditation techniques used, Bhikku Pesala. Since you are quoting scriptures, can you show us an example?
For the point of discussion, it should be plain to see that the understanding of past lives was a product of the Buddha's awakening. Can anyone dispute this? If so, please show.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

alan wrote:I would seriously doubt your account of the meditation techniques used, Bhikkhu Pesala. Since you are quoting scriptures, can you show us an example? For the point of discussion, it should be plain to see that the understanding of past lives was a product of the Buddha's awakening. Can anyone dispute this? If so, please show.
I could dispute this, but I find your response not worthy of consideration. I certainly don't have time to go searching for references to dispute with every sceptic who posts on these forums. From the sceptic's POV, what it says in the texts and commentaries is not trustworthy, so even if shown the original Pāli, the sceptic will remain unconvinced. To dispute any further will merely disrupt the thread from its original purpose, which was to reconcile the Buddha's teachings with Dr Ian Stevenson's accounts.
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Nori
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by Nori »

James the Giant wrote:We missed the boat there. He died some time ago.
He might still be available though, we just have to find the right child and ask the right questions.
---

I found him..

Last edited by Nori on Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
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cooran
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

This may be of interest to some. An interview with Dr. Ian Stevenson:
Scientific Proof of Reincarnation - Dr. Ian Stevenson's Life Work
"Either he [Dr. Stevenson] is making a colossal mistake. Or he will be known as the Galileo of the 20th century." Dr Harold Lief in the Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease
• About Dr. Ian Stevenson
• Omni Magazine's Interview with Dr. Ian Stevenson
• Sweet Swarnlata: An Example Case of Dr. Ian Stevenson's
http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by Zom »

Hi
In the studies of Ian Stevenson about memories of children concerning their past lives, I find three things which don't quite fit with the Buddha's teachings:
1°) They were humans each time in their previous lives (not animals, petas...etc...)
2°) They were reborn in a place near where they lived before
3°) There is sometimes several weeks or months between the death and the rebirth.
How do U explain all these facts.

1. I think that is because such child memories are possible only in human-human rebirth. If you will will be reborn as a human from some other plane of existance, perhaps, you won't remember that.

2. As far as I know that is not always the case. But actually there is no problem and no contradiction to Buddha's teaching on rebirth. I would even say otherwise - this is a proof to the cases of reincarnation in pali canon.

3. I think there IS an intermediate state of existence (as sarvastivadins said, for example). There are some proofs for that in pali canon.
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by DarwidHalim »

Sacha G wrote:Hi
In the studies of Ian Stevenson about memories of children concerning their past lives, I find three things which don't quite fit with the Buddha's teachings:
1°) They were humans each time in their previous lives (not animals, petas...etc...)
2°) They were reborn in a place near where they lived before
3°) There is sometimes several weeks or months between the death and the rebirth.
How do U explain all these facts.
Sacha G :bow:
I don't see the contradiction with Buddhism.
1. It is not necessary we are not human in our previous life. We can be human.
2. They can born anywhere, not restricted to any places.
3. There is a teaching by Indian Buddhist master about the period between death and rebirth. The period is 49 days or lesser.
I am not here nor there.
I am not right nor wrong.
I do not exist neither non-exist.
I am not I nor non-I.
I am not in samsara nor nirvana.
To All Buddhas, I bow down for the teaching of emptiness. Thank You!
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by alan »

I'm not a sceptic, Bhikkhu Pesala. I'm just asking a question.
Was the understanding of rebirth a part of the Buddha's awakening? I say yes. What do you say?
Can children remember their past lives? I say no.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by tiltbillings »

alan wrote:I'm not a sceptic, Bhikkhu Pesala. I'm just asking a question.
Was the understanding of rebirth a part of the Buddha's awakening? I say yes. What do you say?
Can children remember their past lives? I say no.
Have you carefully looked at Stevenson's research?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
alan
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Re: Ian Stevenson, Rebirth, and the Suttas

Post by alan »

That is a reply, not an answer.
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